I have long preached about the value of building a solid reference library. Today I am pleased to share an interview recently conducted with one of my personal research heroes, Mark Stang. Mark is an award-winning author of eight books on Major League baseball and many of you know him by way of his seminal work on uniform numbers, “Baseball by the Numbers”. Mark has also produced a series of coffee-table style team photo histories covering seven of the original 16 franchises. These team works are must for any library. In these, Mark chronicles a franchise’s history through a wonderful mix of rare and vivid player images and supporting commentary. Enough of me, let’s get to Mark Stang.

Grob: Mark, On behalf of the MEARS staff and our readers, thanks for making time for this. I know you are busy and are just getting back from Cuba. Future book project?

Stang: My pleasure, Dave. My original plan had been to make the next volume in the series feature the Boston Red Sox for publication in Fall 2010. However, I’m presently shopping for a new publisher and that leaves my plans in limbo. I’m hopeful that the series will be able to continue, but most publishers are being very cautious about taking on new projects at this time. So, we’ll see.

Grob: I mentioned “Baseball By The Numbers” in the intro, how long did that project take and what was the one thing you found most surprising about that project when it was all said and done?

Stang: I began compiling the raw data in 1988 and was able to self-publish my research on uniform numbers in 1991 as “Rosters”, which I originally marketed solely to SABR members. At that time, the listings covered the period from 1929 up thru 1971, or the end of the flannel era. In 1993, I got a book contract from Scarecrow Press and the listings were expanded up thru the 1992 season and published in Fall, 1996. There are roughly 1,000 copies of the book in circulation, but the original version of 1152 pages is now out of print. There have been recent discussions with the publisher about an updated and revised second edition, but nothing has been finalized.

I think the most surprising result of the publication of the book was that after compiling over 50,000 listings for players, coaches and managers, I was still missing nearly 2,000 “cup of coffee” guys. Since I relied solely on regular season game-issued scorecards for my data, many of the late-season call-ups, mid-season trades and career minor leaguers whose stay in the big leagues may have been very brief were still missing. Luckily, the ensuing 15+ years has reduced that number to less than 800.

Grob: Your first team work was the “Reds in Black and White, 100 Years of Cincinnati Reds Images” co-authored with Greg Rhodes in 1999. Of course I am partial to the Reds and of course they should have been first… what influenced your decision to produce a book like this and why start with the Reds?

Stang: The short answer is two-fold. Both Greg and I were living in Cincinnati at the time. And secondly, in 1998 we had purchased at auction a large collection of vintage Reds photos from the original files of the defunct Baseball Magazine. That collection of roughly 650 photos provided much of the basis for the book. We felt that with the millennium approaching, there could well be interest in looking back photographically at the previous 100 years of Reds history. It turned out with a storied franchise like the Reds, there was a lot of interest.

Grob:Your original format was huge success winning the 1999 SABR/Sporting News baseball research award. You then followed up the Reds book with releases in consecutive years for the Cleveland Indians (2000), Chicago Cubs (2001), and the St. Louis Cardinals (2002). Why did you pick those clubs as the subjects to follow up your initial work?

Stang: The success of the Reds book showed that we had a format that could work in other Major League cities. Greg wanted to concentrate exclusively on Reds-themed books and I subsequently teamed up with another Ohio area publisher, Orange Frazer Press, and expanded the series to eventually include another 6 teams.

The choice of the next three teams was based on my wanting to feature teams that: had been in the same city for the previous 100 seasons, had a die-hard fan base that supported them thru thick and thin and were a workable distance from my home in Cincinnati when I needed to travel for book store signings almost every weekend each Fall.

Grob: In 2005 you teamed up with Phil Wood to produce “Nationals on Parade, 70 Years of Washington Nationals Photos”. Phil is one of those guys who has probably forgotten more about the game and uniforms than most folks will ever know. What was it like working with Phil?

Stang: Phil and I had been friends (and fellow uniform collectors) for 15 years by then and we had always agreed that if major league baseball ever returned to the nation’s capitol we would want to tell the story of baseball in D.C. The re-location of the Expos finally made that concept a possibility. Phil’s encyclopedic knowledge of the history of the Washington franchise was a real asset.

Grob: A year later, “Athletics Album, A Photo History of the Philadelphia Athletics” came out in 2006. You dedicated that book to the Philadelphia Athletics Historical Society. How instrumental are organizations like this to your research and are there similar organizations for other ball clubs?

Stang: I had originally joined the A’s Society when it first formed back in 1995. I had always been fascinated by Connie Mack’s White Elephants and thought that franchise’s colorful history deserved to be told. Over the years, other teams such as the St. Louis Browns, Boston Braves and New York Giants have all had organizations dedicated to preserving their history. They all provide a valuable service in helping keep each team’s memory alive for future generations of baseball fans.

Grob: Your most recent book was “Phillies Photos, 100 Years of Philadelphia Phillies Images” in Fall, 2008. What was like to be working on that back at the same time of the resurgence of that ball club?

Stang: With each new project, I have to begin working on it a year in advance of publication. Each time out, you keep your fingers crossed that a particular team might enjoy some postseason success. I always remind people that it‘s often better to be lucky than good. So, with the Phillies, the team’s ending 27 years of frustration with a World Series title certainly was huge boost for sales of the book.

Grob: I am sure there are countless photos that you looked at that were not included in these projects. What is that you are looking for? Does it start with the image or a list of players you want to cover?

Stang: It’s a fairly subjective process. First, I compile a list of the “must-include” players such as any Hall of Famers, any 20-game winners, any batting champion, any Rookie of the Year winner, etc. Then I weave in a mix of notable mangers, owners and broadcasters. Finally I like to include some surprises for each team. Players that most fans will not recall as playing for that particular team: Curt Flood with the Reds, Ferguson Jenkins with the Phillies or a young Walter Alston whose entire major league playing career was one at-bat with the 1936 St. Louis Cardinals.

As for the photo search itself, I will generally choose around 225-230 images for inclusion in each book. That means I probably search thru 20 times that number of images from a variety of private and public sources to get down to the final cut. The search for the best images is my favorite part of each project. You never know what you’re going to uncover, each collection is a treasure hunt.

Grob: Let me change gears for a minute. Your website (markstangbaseballbooks.com) features a picture of you surrounded by some fabulous flannels. Do you have any favorite styles, either ones you have owned or wish you had?

Stang: I originally began collecting vintage game-used Major League flannels in the mid-1980’s, when you could still find all-original styles at pretty reasonable prices. By 1993, I had assembled a collection of 45 jerseys from the 1955-1971 time period, along with matching caps and a game-used bat for each player, whenever possible. Each of the 10 flannels pictured on my website’s homepage was part of my collection. It’s really hard to pick a favorite, I loved them all. However, in 2006, I began selling off my entire collection of jerseys, caps, bats and autographed HOF items. My memorabilia collection now consists entirely of ephemera, photos and framed display pieces. My book projects have now become my primary focus.

Grob: Staying with the website, I like the format and noticed it has sections for team trivia and a twice-monthly blog. Besides being a sales vehicle for some great books, what is your vision for the site and who are trying to reach?

Stang: Well, in addition to trying to capture a wider audience for my work, the secondary goal of the website is to provide additional visual and written content for baseball fans. The slide shows of vintage baseball photos from each book are complimented by my writings about interesting historical oddities from baseball’s golden era. Finally the inclusion of numerous video clips and newspaper articles about my work give my readers a deeper explanation of each project.

Grob: As someone who thinks the world of these team editions, are there any others in the works and when might we expect to see them?

Stang: Well, if time and money were no object, I would eventually like to produce a 16-volume set including each of the original Major League franchises. But I’m already 55, and it’s taken the past 11 years to produce seven of them, so that’s probably not in the cards. Realistically, after the Red Sox book, I’d like to follow that up with the Giants and Dodgers to bring the total to 10. We’ll see how far I get. If I thought I could sell more than a few dozen copies, I would love to tackle the St. Louis Browns and the Boston Braves. As a SABR member since 1989, I find the defunct franchises much more satisfying to work on. The older players were far more colorful, they had better nicknames and they got into more trouble off the field. But the books are very expensive to produce and I’m not in this to take a financial loss, it if can be avoided.

Grob: Is there a topic or individual you would like to take on, but has never found its way into the cue?

Stang: Following the publication of Baseball By The Numbers in 1996, I had originally planned to write the biography of legendary minor league owner Joe Engel of the Chattanooga Lookouts. Engel’s a fascinating character who provided Bill Veeck with some of his best ideas and his story deserves to be told. In 1997, I had compiled all the necessary research, conducted dozens of interviews with people who had worked for him and produced a 25 page book outline. But that’s as far as it got and I eventually began work on my team photo book series just two years later. So that project is still out there.

Grob: Mark, thanks again for your time. In parting, is there anything else you would care to pass along to the MEARS Staff and our readers?

Stang: It was my pleasure, Dave. I’d finish up by saying I strongly believe that in equipment collecting, knowledge is power and sites like MEARS and others provide an invaluable service to collectors and researchers in helping educate them about the past.

Mark’s books can be purchased directly off of his web site at markstangbaseballbooks.com. As I said at the outset, these books are a must of any reference library or casual fan of the clubs or game he has so richly covered.

As always, collect what you enjoy and enjoy what you collect.

Dave Grob

For questions and comments on this article, please feel free to drop me a line at DaveGrob1@aol.com

I have long preached about the value of building a solid reference library. Today I am pleased to share an interview recently conducted with one of my personal research heroes, Mark Stang. Mark is an award-winning author of eight books on Major League baseball and many of you know him by way of his seminal work on uniform numbers, “Baseball by the Numbers”. Mark has also produced a series of coffee-table style team photo histories covering seven of the original 16 franchises. These team works are must for any library. In these, Mark chronicles a franchise’s history through a wonderful mix of rare and vivid player images and supporting commentary. Enough of me, let’s get to Mark Stang.

Grob: Mark, On behalf of the MEARS staff and our readers, thanks for making time for this. I know you are busy and are just getting back from Cuba. Future book project?

Stang: My pleasure, Dave. My original plan had been to make the next volume in the series feature the Boston Red Sox for publication in Fall 2010. However, I’m presently shopping for a new publisher and that leaves my plans in limbo. I’m hopeful that the series will be able to continue, but most publishers are being very cautious about taking on new projects at this time. So, we’ll see.

Grob: I mentioned “Baseball By The Numbers” in the intro, how long did that project take and what was the one thing you found most surprising about that project when it was all said and done?

Stang: I began compiling the raw data in 1988 and was able to self-publish my research on uniform numbers in 1991 as “Rosters”, which I originally marketed solely to SABR members. At that time, the listings covered the period from 1929 up thru 1971, or the end of the flannel era. In 1993, I got a book contract from Scarecrow Press and the listings were expanded up thru the 1992 season and published in Fall, 1996. There are roughly 1,000 copies of the book in circulation, but the original version of 1152 pages is now out of print. There have been recent discussions with the publisher about an updated and revised second edition, but nothing has been finalized.

I think the most surprising result of the publication of the book was that after compiling over 50,000 listings for players, coaches and managers, I was still missing nearly 2,000 “cup of coffee” guys. Since I relied solely on regular season game-issued scorecards for my data, many of the late-season call-ups, mid-season trades and career minor leaguers whose stay in the big leagues may have been very brief were still missing. Luckily, the ensuing 15+ years has reduced that number to less than 800.

Grob: Your first team work was the “Reds in Black and White, 100 Years of Cincinnati Reds Images” co-authored with Greg Rhodes in 1999. Of course I am partial to the Reds and of course they should have been first… what influenced your decision to produce a book like this and why start with the Reds?

Stang: The short answer is two-fold. Both Greg and I were living in Cincinnati at the time. And secondly, in 1998 we had purchased at auction a large collection of vintage Reds photos from the original files of the defunct Baseball Magazine. That collection of roughly 650 photos provided much of the basis for the book. We felt that with the millennium approaching, there could well be interest in looking back photographically at the previous 100 years of Reds history. It turned out with a storied franchise like the Reds, there was a lot of interest.

Grob:Your original format was huge success winning the 1999 SABR/Sporting News baseball research award. You then followed up the Reds book with releases in consecutive years for the Cleveland Indians (2000), Chicago Cubs (2001), and the St. Louis Cardinals (2002). Why did you pick those clubs as the subjects to follow up your initial work?

Stang: The success of the Reds book showed that we had a format that could work in other Major League cities. Greg wanted to concentrate exclusively on Reds-themed books and I subsequently teamed up with another Ohio area publisher, Orange Frazer Press, and expanded the series to eventually include another 6 teams.

The choice of the next three teams was based on my wanting to feature teams that: had been in the same city for the previous 100 seasons, had a die-hard fan base that supported them thru thick and thin and were a workable distance from my home in Cincinnati when I needed to travel for book store signings almost every weekend each Fall.

Grob: In 2005 you teamed up with Phil Wood to produce “Nationals on Parade, 70 Years of Washington Nationals Photos”. Phil is one of those guys who has probably forgotten more about the game and uniforms than most folks will ever know. What was it like working with Phil?

Stang: Phil and I had been friends (and fellow uniform collectors) for 15 years by then and we had always agreed that if major league baseball ever returned to the nation’s capitol we would want to tell the story of baseball in D.C. The re-location of the Expos finally made that concept a possibility. Phil’s encyclopedic knowledge of the history of the Washington franchise was a real asset.

Grob: A year later, “Athletics Album, A Photo History of the Philadelphia Athletics” came out in 2006. You dedicated that book to the Philadelphia Athletics Historical Society. How instrumental are organizations like this to your research and are there similar organizations for other ball clubs?

Stang: I had originally joined the A’s Society when it first formed back in 1995. I had always been fascinated by Connie Mack’s White Elephants and thought that franchise’s colorful history deserved to be told. Over the years, other teams such as the St. Louis Browns, Boston Braves and New York Giants have all had organizations dedicated to preserving their history. They all provide a valuable service in helping keep each team’s memory alive for future generations of baseball fans.

Grob: Your most recent book was “Phillies Photos, 100 Years of Philadelphia Phillies Images” in Fall, 2008. What was like to be working on that back at the same time of the resurgence of that ball club?

Stang: With each new project, I have to begin working on it a year in advance of publication. Each time out, you keep your fingers crossed that a particular team might enjoy some postseason success. I always remind people that it‘s often better to be lucky than good. So, with the Phillies, the team’s ending 27 years of frustration with a World Series title certainly was huge boost for sales of the book.

Grob: I am sure there are countless photos that you looked at that were not included in these projects. What is that you are looking for? Does it start with the image or a list of players you want to cover?

Stang: It’s a fairly subjective process. First, I compile a list of the “must-include” players such as any Hall of Famers, any 20-game winners, any batting champion, any Rookie of the Year winner, etc. Then I weave in a mix of notable mangers, owners and broadcasters. Finally I like to include some surprises for each team. Players that most fans will not recall as playing for that particular team: Curt Flood with the Reds, Ferguson Jenkins with the Phillies or a young Walter Alston whose entire major league playing career was one at-bat with the 1936 St. Louis Cardinals.

As for the photo search itself, I will generally choose around 225-230 images for inclusion in each book. That means I probably search thru 20 times that number of images from a variety of private and public sources to get down to the final cut. The search for the best images is my favorite part of each project. You never know what you’re going to uncover, each collection is a treasure hunt.

Grob: Let me change gears for a minute. Your website (markstangbaseballbooks.com) features a picture of you surrounded by some fabulous flannels. Do you have any favorite styles, either ones you have owned or wish you had?

Stang: I originally began collecting vintage game-used Major League flannels in the mid-1980’s, when you could still find all-original styles at pretty reasonable prices. By 1993, I had assembled a collection of 45 jerseys from the 1955-1971 time period, along with matching caps and a game-used bat for each player, whenever possible. Each of the 10 flannels pictured on my website’s homepage was part of my collection. It’s really hard to pick a favorite, I loved them all. However, in 2006, I began selling off my entire collection of jerseys, caps, bats and autographed HOF items. My memorabilia collection now consists entirely of ephemera, photos and framed display pieces. My book projects have now become my primary focus.

Grob: Staying with the website, I like the format and noticed it has sections for team trivia and a twice-monthly blog. Besides being a sales vehicle for some great books, what is your vision for the site and who are trying to reach?

Stang: Well, in addition to trying to capture a wider audience for my work, the secondary goal of the website is to provide additional visual and written content for baseball fans. The slide shows of vintage baseball photos from each book are complimented by my writings about interesting historical oddities from baseball’s golden era. Finally the inclusion of numerous video clips and newspaper articles about my work give my readers a deeper explanation of each project.

Grob: As someone who thinks the world of these team editions, are there any others in the works and when might we expect to see them?

Stang: Well, if time and money were no object, I would eventually like to produce a 16-volume set including each of the original Major League franchises. But I’m already 55, and it’s taken the past 11 years to produce seven of them, so that’s probably not in the cards. Realistically, after the Red Sox book, I’d like to follow that up with the Giants and Dodgers to bring the total to 10. We’ll see how far I get. If I thought I could sell more than a few dozen copies, I would love to tackle the St. Louis Browns and the Boston Braves. As a SABR member since 1989, I find the defunct franchises much more satisfying to work on. The older players were far more colorful, they had better nicknames and they got into more trouble off the field. But the books are very expensive to produce and I’m not in this to take a financial loss, it if can be avoided.

Grob: Is there a topic or individual you would like to take on, but has never found its way into the cue?

Stang: Following the publication of Baseball By The Numbers in 1996, I had originally planned to write the biography of legendary minor league owner Joe Engel of the Chattanooga Lookouts. Engel’s a fascinating character who provided Bill Veeck with some of his best ideas and his story deserves to be told. In 1997, I had compiled all the necessary research, conducted dozens of interviews with people who had worked for him and produced a 25 page book outline. But that’s as far as it got and I eventually began work on my team photo book series just two years later. So that project is still out there.

Grob: Mark, thanks again for your time. In parting, is there anything else you would care to pass along to the MEARS Staff and our readers?

Stang: It was my pleasure, Dave. I’d finish up by saying I strongly believe that in equipment collecting, knowledge is power and sites like MEARS and others provide an invaluable service to collectors and researchers in helping educate them about the past.

Mark’s books can be purchased directly off of his web site at markstangbaseballbooks.com. As I said at the outset, these books are a must of any reference library or casual fan of the clubs or game he has so richly covered.

As always, collect what you enjoy and enjoy what you collect.

Dave Grob

For questions and comments on this article, please feel free to drop me a line at DaveGrob1@aol.com

By and large, over the past year and a half, I have written about items, venues, and hobby/industry issues. For 2007 I plan on writing about some of the various individuals I have come across over a number of years. I have decided to start with Mike Heffner’s at Leland’s for a number of reasons. Mike was one of the first hobby/industry people I came into contact with through my early efforts dealing with Cincinnati Reds items. Over the years, Mike has established some very solid Reds contacts in Cincinnati and we know a number of the same folks in that respect.

The other reason I felt it was appropriate to start with Mike is that is organization has no formal ties to mine. I don’t want this series of pieces to be seen as simply a way to “throw a bone to one of our own.” This happens with all too much frequency in this industry/hobby. When venues and publications only cater to those that do business with them, there is very little objectivity on both sides and the hobby/industry at large does not benefit from this. For this piece, the questions are mine and the answers are Mike’s. His responses have not been edited nor should they be. With that, lets’s get started.

DG Q: I know that you are a collector as well, when did this start for you and what was it with?

MH A: Like most kids, I began collecting baseball cards when I was around 5 years old; this was during the mid 1970’s. I was a little different from the rest of the boys collecting cards because I discovered that there was a value to these little pieces of cardboard. I also discovered, at an early age, that condition of the cards was important. When I was 10 years old (1980) I purchased a box (36 packs) of 1980 Topps Baseball cards for $6 at the local grocery store. I kept that box underneath my bed for 10 years without opening a pack and ultimately sold it for $500. I was fortunate to have grown up in Pennsylvania close to several large flea markets and antique complexes. This is where I discovered sports memorabilia and as soon as I started purchasing bats, balls, uniforms, programs and so on, I knew that this is the stuff that really meant something to me. That’s when I turned my attention away from baseball cards. It was not until I met Josh Evans, who then resided in Allentown, PA that I began to learn about and appreciate game worn items. This was in 1986.

DG Q: On a personal collecting level, what is the one item you have parted with over the past that you wish you still had?

MH A: Over a year ago I sold a large portion of my personal collection but since then I have accumulated a good number of new items. The piece that I really wish I would still have is Mike Schmidt’s 501st homerun baseball. It was special because I personally bought it from Pete Rose. The ball was signed and personalized to Rose by Schmidt. I thought that it was a really special piece because Schmidt credited Rose with taking him to the next level as a ball player and he wrote this on the ball and gave it to Rose as a gift. It also showed how much appreciation that Schmidt had for Rose. Add to that the fact that I am a big Pete Rose collector. I did not sell the ball but traded it to a friend for a 1959 Frank Robinson cap and a few other items. I still have the cap and my friend still has the ball so there is still a chance that I can get it back. That is something that I have learned in this hobby, in many cases there will be a second chance to buy an item or one very similar even if you miss it on the first go around or have it and get rid of it.

DG Q: How did you come to be involved with Leland’s?

MH A: While in high school I made weekly visits to all of the local venues that sold antiques. I would purchase items for my collection from flea markets and shops. I realized that in order to pay for college I would have to sell some of these items. In 1986 I found a large group of T206 cards, around 200, and about 50 B18 Blankets including a Joe Jackson. I did not know that best way to sell them and had just found out about Sports Collectors Digest. I was amazed when I found a full-page ad for a company called Lelands. The ad stated that the company was looking to buy vintage sports memorabilia and cards. The amazing thing was that they were located a mere 15 minutes from my home in PA. I took the cards to their office, sold them to Josh for a very good profit and the rest is history. I continued to pursue the markets, buy sports memorabilia, and sell it to Josh. It paid my way through college. When I graduated, Josh had just moved the company to New York City. He offered me a full time job and I began my career at Lelands. I started working at Lelands doing all sorts of stuff including shipping. In the years that followed, I progressed to the position of Director of Acquisitions, to Managing Partner to President, to 50% owner.

DG Q: What are three things that you would like to see change within the industry/hobby and why?

MH A: One, I would like for everyone to work together. I know that this is a very broad statement but this hobby would be so much nicer to work within if collectors, dealers, and auction houses just communicated with one another in a more positive way. I do not mind at all when people call me and ask me questions on items that they are thinking about purchasing. I also do not mind when someone calls me and tells me to take a second look at an item that we are selling. I actually feel good when people do ask me questions, it makes me feel useful, like I am making a difference and helping someone and helping the hobby. It also shows me that people still care to look beyond what is spoken or written. I think that if everyone just asked around if they were not sure about something, this hobby would be a much more friendly and educated place. Two, I would like to see collectors, dealers, auction houses and authenticators be more responsible for what they sell and authenticate. Simply stated, if someone makes a mistake, they should be held accountable for it. This does not mean that I am in favor of public lynchings of anyone who makes a mistake or sells or authenticates a bad item. I would just like to see people accept accountability and back up what they sell. To put their money where their mouths are so to speak. Dealers, auction houses and authenticators need to realize that people put their trust in them. Trust is the most important element for attracting and keeping new collectors involved with this hobby. Lastly, I would like to see the people who knowingly sell fraudulent material ostracized from the hobby and business. It is very hard to get law enforcement to respond to the criminal acts of fraud and counterfeiting within the hobby. There are many reasons for this and that is a separate discussion in itself. But, we can police our own ranks. I believe that those who are counterfeiting goods should be barred from doing business. A simple boycott would send a message. Some of the larger dealers, auction houses and authenticators could sit down together and in a matter of minutes identify the main culprits. And, when someone is caught red handed, they should be banned from ever doing business within this hobby again. I know it sounds unrealistic and it probably is but we all have to keep in mind that fakes are the single most damaging thing in the hobby. They destroy the credibility of the industry, they damage the potential value of the real stuff, and they drive the future of the hobby into the ground by turning off new, young collectors who get burned their first time out. They hurt everyone and the people who manufacture and sell them have to be dealt with.

DG Q: What are three things that you consider the strengths of the industry/hobby at this time and why?

MH A: The hobby has become risky for collectors over the past several years. One reason is a shortage of legitimate materials and a sharp increase in the values of these items. This tends to encourage fraud. The hobby has been adjusting to the rapid increase of bogus items and we now have several public forums where collectors can go to try to find out about the items they are buying. One big plus is the number of resources for research are increasing every day and that is making the hobby better by educating collectors. Take, for example, Getty Images. Twenty years ago you would have to go out and buy 100 magazines just to come close to photo-matching a jersey. Now we have sites like Getty that offers us photos at the click of a button. Second, I think that the amount of competition in the industry is good and an asset for collectors. It allows more material to become available and also keeps most of those who operate these businesses on their toes. Third, I think that there is a solid awareness to the problems in our hobby and therefore we can begin to attack those problems. Most issue are no longer just sweep under the rug.

DG Q: Complete this sentence/thought…If I was just starting to collect game used sports memorabilia, I would recommend….

MH A: Doing my homework! Look before you leap. Ask questions. There is no such thing as a dumb question. And, don’t just get one opinion, ask several educated parties. Even if it comes with a letter, double-check the facts. Find other like items to compare to the item being bought. This is all pretty simple stuff but being collectors, myself included, we often get giddy at the sight of something that we have been looking for and we write the check too fast. In addition, buy from reputable sources and make sure that if you are getting a letter that it comes from a reputable source also. By reputable source, I mean a company or individual with a good track record, one that if they made a mistake will refund your money in full.

DG Q: Who do you consider the most important sports personality of the 20th Century with respect to influence on the hobby/industry in the following sports and why?

Baseball
Football
Basketball
Hockey
Boxing

MH A:

Baseball-Without a doubt, Babe Ruth. He is the most recognizable name in baseball, maybe all sports, and was the first player with such mass fan appeal. He treated fans like family and signed more autographs for them than any other player of his time. He is as popular with collectors today as when he played and his game used memorabilia is still some of the most sought after. His name is responsible for propelling this hobby to new heights. When an item sells for hundreds of thousands of dollars, it is likely that it was associated with George Herman Ruth.

Football-I was going to say O.J. because he made such a ruckus in the media and also brought so much attention to the hobby by selling his Heisman, doing signings, getting thrown out of shows and the fact that his memorabilia escalated in value and then plummeted. On a positive note, I’ll go with Joe Montana. He was huge when the hobby really took off in the mid 1980’s. His game used equipment was some of the first of the modern material to really be worth a lot and he was one of the first to do “authenticated” private signings.

Basketball- Michael Joradan. Just the fact that his rookie card came out during the height of the sports card explosion and he single handedly put basketball on the map. Around the same time that Jordan came on to the scene, several collectors began to assemble Hall of Fame-caliber basketball jersey collections. A coincidence? His game used stuff hit heights that no current player’s ever had before.

Hockey-Wayne Gretzky. He really took hockey to a new level, both as a sport and in the collectibles field. He was also one of the first players in any sport to hand out to friends and fans game used items in quantity. He was very generous with game used sticks. His jerseys are another story, the real ones are so limited and desirable that the early ones now fetch in upwards of $100,000. Thus, his jersey is the most valublable of any player from the last 30 years.

Boxing-Muhammad Ali. There was and probably never will be a boxer that endorsed as many products as Ali. Thus, his name offers the collector an almost endless supply of items to collect. His fight worn material is the most sought after in the hobby and his autograph, although plentiful, is still one of the most desirable of all the living legends out there.

DG Q: I have just let you in on a project I have been working on for the Department of Defense that involves time travel…Mike Heffner, (Jack Bauer is booked) you have 24 hours to go back in time an retrieve one piece of sports memorabilia, what do you go after and what do think the value of it would be in today’s market?

MH A:
Oh man, that would be a blast. I would have to go back to the origin because it all starts there. The first ball used in the very first organized game of baseball. It would be priceless to me. In auction with perfect provenance, it could sell for millions. I am sure there is a more creative answer but this would sort of be like having the Holy Grail, the cornerstone of our national pastime. Off course I would have to make sure that I brought the LOA along back with me. I’m smiling!

Additional Information about Mike Heffner and Leland’s can be found at:

http://www.auctionreport.com/whoswho.htm

The Leland’s Website is located at:

www.lelands.com

LTC Dave Grob can be reached for comments or questions about this article at:

LTC Dave Grob
Woodbridge, VA 22193

Or

DaveGrob1@aol.com

By and large, over the past year and a half, I have written about items, venues, and hobby/industry issues. For 2007 I plan on writing about some of the various individuals I have come across over a number of years. I have decided to start with Mike Heffner’s at Leland’s for a number of reasons. Mike was one of the first hobby/industry people I came into contact with through my early efforts dealing with Cincinnati Reds items. Over the years, Mike has established some very solid Reds contacts in Cincinnati and we know a number of the same folks in that respect.

The other reason I felt it was appropriate to start with Mike is that is organization has no formal ties to mine. I don’t want this series of pieces to be seen as simply a way to “throw a bone to one of our own.” This happens with all too much frequency in this industry/hobby. When venues and publications only cater to those that do business with them, there is very little objectivity on both sides and the hobby/industry at large does not benefit from this. For this piece, the questions are mine and the answers are Mike’s. His responses have not been edited nor should they be. With that, lets’s get started.

DG Q: I know that you are a collector as well, when did this start for you and what was it with?

MH A: Like most kids, I began collecting baseball cards when I was around 5 years old; this was during the mid 1970’s. I was a little different from the rest of the boys collecting cards because I discovered that there was a value to these little pieces of cardboard. I also discovered, at an early age, that condition of the cards was important. When I was 10 years old (1980) I purchased a box (36 packs) of 1980 Topps Baseball cards for $6 at the local grocery store. I kept that box underneath my bed for 10 years without opening a pack and ultimately sold it for $500. I was fortunate to have grown up in Pennsylvania close to several large flea markets and antique complexes. This is where I discovered sports memorabilia and as soon as I started purchasing bats, balls, uniforms, programs and so on, I knew that this is the stuff that really meant something to me. That’s when I turned my attention away from baseball cards. It was not until I met Josh Evans, who then resided in Allentown, PA that I began to learn about and appreciate game worn items. This was in 1986.

DG Q: On a personal collecting level, what is the one item you have parted with over the past that you wish you still had?

MH A: Over a year ago I sold a large portion of my personal collection but since then I have accumulated a good number of new items. The piece that I really wish I would still have is Mike Schmidt’s 501st homerun baseball. It was special because I personally bought it from Pete Rose. The ball was signed and personalized to Rose by Schmidt. I thought that it was a really special piece because Schmidt credited Rose with taking him to the next level as a ball player and he wrote this on the ball and gave it to Rose as a gift. It also showed how much appreciation that Schmidt had for Rose. Add to that the fact that I am a big Pete Rose collector. I did not sell the ball but traded it to a friend for a 1959 Frank Robinson cap and a few other items. I still have the cap and my friend still has the ball so there is still a chance that I can get it back. That is something that I have learned in this hobby, in many cases there will be a second chance to buy an item or one very similar even if you miss it on the first go around or have it and get rid of it.

DG Q: How did you come to be involved with Leland’s?

MH A: While in high school I made weekly visits to all of the local venues that sold antiques. I would purchase items for my collection from flea markets and shops. I realized that in order to pay for college I would have to sell some of these items. In 1986 I found a large group of T206 cards, around 200, and about 50 B18 Blankets including a Joe Jackson. I did not know that best way to sell them and had just found out about Sports Collectors Digest. I was amazed when I found a full-page ad for a company called Lelands. The ad stated that the company was looking to buy vintage sports memorabilia and cards. The amazing thing was that they were located a mere 15 minutes from my home in PA. I took the cards to their office, sold them to Josh for a very good profit and the rest is history. I continued to pursue the markets, buy sports memorabilia, and sell it to Josh. It paid my way through college. When I graduated, Josh had just moved the company to New York City. He offered me a full time job and I began my career at Lelands. I started working at Lelands doing all sorts of stuff including shipping. In the years that followed, I progressed to the position of Director of Acquisitions, to Managing Partner to President, to 50% owner.

DG Q: What are three things that you would like to see change within the industry/hobby and why?

MH A: One, I would like for everyone to work together. I know that this is a very broad statement but this hobby would be so much nicer to work within if collectors, dealers, and auction houses just communicated with one another in a more positive way. I do not mind at all when people call me and ask me questions on items that they are thinking about purchasing. I also do not mind when someone calls me and tells me to take a second look at an item that we are selling. I actually feel good when people do ask me questions, it makes me feel useful, like I am making a difference and helping someone and helping the hobby. It also shows me that people still care to look beyond what is spoken or written. I think that if everyone just asked around if they were not sure about something, this hobby would be a much more friendly and educated place. Two, I would like to see collectors, dealers, auction houses and authenticators be more responsible for what they sell and authenticate. Simply stated, if someone makes a mistake, they should be held accountable for it. This does not mean that I am in favor of public lynchings of anyone who makes a mistake or sells or authenticates a bad item. I would just like to see people accept accountability and back up what they sell. To put their money where their mouths are so to speak. Dealers, auction houses and authenticators need to realize that people put their trust in them. Trust is the most important element for attracting and keeping new collectors involved with this hobby. Lastly, I would like to see the people who knowingly sell fraudulent material ostracized from the hobby and business. It is very hard to get law enforcement to respond to the criminal acts of fraud and counterfeiting within the hobby. There are many reasons for this and that is a separate discussion in itself. But, we can police our own ranks. I believe that those who are counterfeiting goods should be barred from doing business. A simple boycott would send a message. Some of the larger dealers, auction houses and authenticators could sit down together and in a matter of minutes identify the main culprits. And, when someone is caught red handed, they should be banned from ever doing business within this hobby again. I know it sounds unrealistic and it probably is but we all have to keep in mind that fakes are the single most damaging thing in the hobby. They destroy the credibility of the industry, they damage the potential value of the real stuff, and they drive the future of the hobby into the ground by turning off new, young collectors who get burned their first time out. They hurt everyone and the people who manufacture and sell them have to be dealt with.

DG Q: What are three things that you consider the strengths of the industry/hobby at this time and why?

MH A: The hobby has become risky for collectors over the past several years. One reason is a shortage of legitimate materials and a sharp increase in the values of these items. This tends to encourage fraud. The hobby has been adjusting to the rapid increase of bogus items and we now have several public forums where collectors can go to try to find out about the items they are buying. One big plus is the number of resources for research are increasing every day and that is making the hobby better by educating collectors. Take, for example, Getty Images. Twenty years ago you would have to go out and buy 100 magazines just to come close to photo-matching a jersey. Now we have sites like Getty that offers us photos at the click of a button. Second, I think that the amount of competition in the industry is good and an asset for collectors. It allows more material to become available and also keeps most of those who operate these businesses on their toes. Third, I think that there is a solid awareness to the problems in our hobby and therefore we can begin to attack those problems. Most issue are no longer just sweep under the rug.

DG Q: Complete this sentence/thought…If I was just starting to collect game used sports memorabilia, I would recommend….

MH A: Doing my homework! Look before you leap. Ask questions. There is no such thing as a dumb question. And, don’t just get one opinion, ask several educated parties. Even if it comes with a letter, double-check the facts. Find other like items to compare to the item being bought. This is all pretty simple stuff but being collectors, myself included, we often get giddy at the sight of something that we have been looking for and we write the check too fast. In addition, buy from reputable sources and make sure that if you are getting a letter that it comes from a reputable source also. By reputable source, I mean a company or individual with a good track record, one that if they made a mistake will refund your money in full.

DG Q: Who do you consider the most important sports personality of the 20th Century with respect to influence on the hobby/industry in the following sports and why?

Baseball
Football
Basketball
Hockey
Boxing

MH A:

Baseball-Without a doubt, Babe Ruth. He is the most recognizable name in baseball, maybe all sports, and was the first player with such mass fan appeal. He treated fans like family and signed more autographs for them than any other player of his time. He is as popular with collectors today as when he played and his game used memorabilia is still some of the most sought after. His name is responsible for propelling this hobby to new heights. When an item sells for hundreds of thousands of dollars, it is likely that it was associated with George Herman Ruth.

Football-I was going to say O.J. because he made such a ruckus in the media and also brought so much attention to the hobby by selling his Heisman, doing signings, getting thrown out of shows and the fact that his memorabilia escalated in value and then plummeted. On a positive note, I’ll go with Joe Montana. He was huge when the hobby really took off in the mid 1980’s. His game used equipment was some of the first of the modern material to really be worth a lot and he was one of the first to do “authenticated” private signings.

Basketball- Michael Joradan. Just the fact that his rookie card came out during the height of the sports card explosion and he single handedly put basketball on the map. Around the same time that Jordan came on to the scene, several collectors began to assemble Hall of Fame-caliber basketball jersey collections. A coincidence? His game used stuff hit heights that no current player’s ever had before.

Hockey-Wayne Gretzky. He really took hockey to a new level, both as a sport and in the collectibles field. He was also one of the first players in any sport to hand out to friends and fans game used items in quantity. He was very generous with game used sticks. His jerseys are another story, the real ones are so limited and desirable that the early ones now fetch in upwards of $100,000. Thus, his jersey is the most valublable of any player from the last 30 years.

Boxing-Muhammad Ali. There was and probably never will be a boxer that endorsed as many products as Ali. Thus, his name offers the collector an almost endless supply of items to collect. His fight worn material is the most sought after in the hobby and his autograph, although plentiful, is still one of the most desirable of all the living legends out there.

DG Q: I have just let you in on a project I have been working on for the Department of Defense that involves time travel…Mike Heffner, (Jack Bauer is booked) you have 24 hours to go back in time an retrieve one piece of sports memorabilia, what do you go after and what do think the value of it would be in today’s market?

MH A:
Oh man, that would be a blast. I would have to go back to the origin because it all starts there. The first ball used in the very first organized game of baseball. It would be priceless to me. In auction with perfect provenance, it could sell for millions. I am sure there is a more creative answer but this would sort of be like having the Holy Grail, the cornerstone of our national pastime. Off course I would have to make sure that I brought the LOA along back with me. I’m smiling!

Additional Information about Mike Heffner and Leland’s can be found at:

http://www.auctionreport.com/whoswho.htm

The Leland’s Website is located at:

www.lelands.com

LTC Dave Grob can be reached for comments or questions about this article at:

LTC Dave Grob
Woodbridge, VA 22193

Or

DaveGrob1@aol.com

Michael Fuss is a big man…if you were trapped in a burning building, you’d hope a guy this big was coming to get you out! Michael Fuss has a big heart; he’s generous and kind to his friends; he makes sure his “family” gets to the doctor or the grocery store and everyone in the neighborhood knows him!! He’s got a big, deep voice – Fireman Mike Fuss is a big, gruff, garrulous guy. Mike is a fixture in Madison for a number of reasons; he’s lived here forever; he’s been in the neighborhood almost forever; he was with the Madison Fire Department for 31 years; he still (at his advanced age) plays in a couple of softball leagues and he plays pedal steel guitar in a very popular Madison band. A collector of firehouse-related, fire truck related items, Mike’s been featured in numerous newspaper and magazine articles. He lives in Old Fire Station # 8 – it houses his collection of fire trucks and his collection of Eddie Mathews/Milwaukee Braves memorabilia…and he loves giving tours!! It might be a tad presumptuous to refer to Mike as a renaissance man; however, his interests are certainly broad. He was – and sometimes, still is – the firehouse cook. Most firehouses operate on a so-many-days-on-duty, so-many-days-off-duty schedule so during on-duty days they eat and sleep at the firehouse… It didn’t take long for people to realize that Mike is a terrific cook!! Sometimes I think I can actually feel my arteries hardening but, may gosh, is it good!!

He is also a very fine musician – not just player-musician! I could introduce you to dozens of hugely talented guitarists who at some point in their careers thought it would be helpful, cool and fun to add pedal steel to the list of instruments they’d mastered. The majority of those fine players came away from that endeavor beaten, bruised and humbled…Pedal steel guitar is difficult to learn and still more difficult to play well…Mike plays it very well! Furthermore, as the lead singer in the band, it appears he knows all the words to all the songs written since 1951. Did I mention the fire safety classes he teaches and the softball games every week and the fact that he’s on the Milwaukee Braves Historical Association’s board of directors? If you call him, don’t be at all surprised to be asked – gruffly – to leave a message and he’ll call you back – he will, too!

A few years ago Mike remodeled the upstairs part of the firehouse into living areas and his Eddie Mathews/Milwaukee Braves museum. Mike and Eddie became friends in the early 1980’s when Eddie was working with/scouting the Madison Muskies baseball team. Before I ever met Mike I remember seeing him at card memorabilia shows. After Eddie had finished signing autographs, the two of them – and sometimes wives – and sometimes other players – would go off in the huge motor home to get supper and a “pop”. I don’t think either of them ever went out for a “drink” – they went out for a “pop”…Eddie’s term, I think…

My wife, Gayle, and I had the good fortune to visit the Mathews-Braves-firehouse shrine in October 2005. It blew away our expectations (which were pretty high anyway)!! One of the things I hadn’t really given thought to – Mike’s warm and private relationship with Eddie and with the Mathews family. He has stuff no one else would have had access to…add to that the friendships with other Braves players that developed out of his close relationship with Eddie…it has all made for a great tribute to a great player and a great team!!

Here’s the interview – I’m in the firehouse home of Fireman Mike Fuss…

DK: Well, here we are with Mike Fuss. Tell us a little about yourself, Mike…

FM: Well, I was born October 19, 1947 in Madison, WI . I’m 57 years old, my birthday is six days after my hero, Eddie Mathews’ birthday. I wanted to be a fireman since I was four years old and, when I grew up a little more, I wanted to play for the Milwaukee Braves. So I wanted to do two things; well, I accomplished one and I feel like I’m a part of the Milwaukee Braves organization and that makes me feel really good. So, you could kinda say I accomplished both – at least I’m around it. And I was on the fire department for 31 yrs – I retired five years ago. I have a son and a stepson- both of their names are Mike-and they’re both on the Madison fire department. I live in an old fire station on Madison’s northeast side – close to Oscar Mayer’s. I grew up in this neighborhood – I lived four blocks away from this fire station and I used to come down here every day when I was a kid. My son, Mike Jr., was up in Wisconsin Rapids for four years on their fire department, then he came here and has been on here for nine years. My stepson, Mike, was on the fire department in Milwaukee for five years and he’s been on here (Madison) for 12 years. I have a daughter, Julie, who is married and lives up by Lodi and has two children. My son, Mike, has two children and my other son, Mike, has two children. So it’s two, two and two. (He laughs) I have lived in this fire station for 15 years. It was my life’s dream to be stationed here and I was for the last two years it was open. So now I have tours once in awhile, not like I used to, but it’s still open to the public. And I have a Milwaukee Braves display to show people. It’s very interesting, I think. And I just love the people to see this. So if anybody is interested all they have to do is just get a hold of me and they can come and see it.

DK: How would they get a hold of you, Mike?

FM: Call 608-244-6732 or my cell phone 608-669-4141 (Eddie Mathew’s #). I also have e-mail, the address is mfuss@merr.com. I also play in a country/western band and we have a website, zip-country.com, so you can see our schedule. You’ll see a list of bands and ours is Cherokee and that will also give you a photo and biography and our schedule for the year. We play old country and western and 50’s & 60’s music. We could do a whole night of either if we would have to.

DK: Would you talk about the fire trucks and the firehouse?

FM: This fire station was built in 1948 and was opened in 1949. When I was coming down here there was only one fire truck and it was really special to me. It was the first fire engine I really got to spend time around…I drew pictures of it…I followed it to fires whenever I could. It was involved in an accident January 15, 1959. The station was opened Jan 15, 1949 – so it was 10 yrs before the truck was involved in an accident. I got pretty sentimentally attached to it. It was replaced by a pumper and an aerial ladder truck and I have all three of those trucks in the station. I also have two other trucks in stations in Madison. The station is still open for tours but not as much, because I’ve got a lot of other stuff going on so it takes up more and more of my time.

DK: What kinds of trucks are those?

FM: The one that is very special to me is a 1941 Pirsch. It was made in Kenosha, WI. The pumper that replaced it with a 1959 FWD made in Clintonville, WI. The aerial ladder is a 1959 Pirsch from Kenosha. And I have a 1950 Pirsch aerial ladder and a 1956 pumper. I did have another 1956 Pirsch pumper that was a twin to this one, but I sold it. I also had a 1959 Pirsch pumper from Monona, WI and I also sold that. This station is a three bay station, it used to house the quad – that’s the one that’s special to me – and it housed an engine and an aerial – then they built an addition where they put an ambulance when we got ambulance service in 1965. So, at various times, there were between 6 and 10 men stationed here. And I used to cook and I also drove the ambulance.

DK: Any exciting stories from the fire dept that we ought to throw in here? I’m sure there were some…

FM: Yes, I did get to work with both of my sons before I retired which was really nice. And I did go to a few fires with them. And I did get close to biting the dust or kicking the bucket at a fire at the Salvation Army downtown Madison in 1976. The fire was at 2:00 A.M. and only five blocks away and we could smell it as soon as we walked out the door. So we knew we had a fire right away. So we got there and were told to search the building – we did that – we didn’t find anyone and then we were told to go to the roof and ventilate. We got up there and I had a saw – I tried to get through the roof and I couldn’t through it. I looked around and about 15 feet away I saw the flames, this fire was really gaining and I felt that the fire was right underneath us. So I told the officer we’d better get off this roof. And he agreed…there were three of us. We got down and in just minutes maybe (I was on a hand line-a fire hose) and all of a sudden this building collapsed right where we’d been. We’d just got out of where all that happened. Then the wall came right down at us so I just threw the nozzle and the bricks were flying and we just got out of there – but if we had been up on that roof we would have all been dead because we’d been down in the middle of the building, in the middle of the fire. So that was a very, very close call. And my name is Michael and I am sure St. Michael the archangel had a little something to do with that – he was protecting me.

DK: I believe that – I believe that. (Pause…) Um… talk a little about that funky motor home…

FM: OK… I’ve got a motor home that’s a 1999 Tropicale. It’s made in California and is a 36 footer. I’ve been to Branson, Nashville, I’ve been to Mississippi, Arkansas, Missouri, up north in Wisconsin. Then one day I was going down the road with my wife while she was driving and I decided I had never got to see the back of it going down the road. So I decided when we were coming back – not too far from your house in IL – coming back from Kentucky. And I thought wouldn’t it be nice to have a nice mural of the Braves up there. I could see the Braves script and a tomahawk and I thought that sure would be neat and that’s what I did. And I added Milwaukee Braves Historical Association. Then I decided I needed something else on there, so I added my hero, Eddie Mathews. Then I thought I gotta have somebody else, so I had Hank, then I added Spahnie, then I thought we should have the president of the Milwaukee Braves Historical Association so I put Johnny Logan on there and then I added Felix Mantilla because he’s such a great guy and I thought he deserved to be on there, too. Then I have the tomahawk and the “Braves” on the front and I have Eddie’s number 41 on the side and on the back and it’s just kind of a thing I like. It’s nice to drive down the road and people wave at you – they like the Braves and stuff on it. Kind of a neat thing and I love it.

DK: Good. Talk a little bit about the fact that at your great advanced age you’re still playing ball.

FM: Well I’ve always loved to play baseball and I played it but was not major league caliber – not even minor league caliber. But I had fun doing it. Then I started playing softball and I played that most of my adult life and I am still playing slow pitch softball one night a week and I just love it because I’m the catcher. I tore my rotator cuff – ripped it all the way – that was five yrs ago and I had to have surgery. The Doctor said
I’d never play again. But, I just exercise and do everything and still do it every day. And I throw the ball, but I don’t trust it – I used to play 3rd base and the outfield, but catching is great because I get to run a lot – I like to run and I love to back up that 1st baseman but I end up backing up everybody, but that’s alright – I’m kind of a take charge guy out in the field and I’m telling them what to do. And they like that cause we’re all older guys. But I love playing and I’m going to keep playing. I had a bad year though.

DK: What does that mean?

FM: Didn’t hit well at all and I was overweight – that had a lot to do with it, and I couldn’t run as well as I wanted to and I just couldn’t hit.

DK: Isn’t that terrible?

FM: Yeah, it’s just bad.

DK: I know. I finally had to quit. So…start somewhere far back, I mean you used to go see the games in Milwaukee; start somewhere there, work this way in time to when you and Eddie got to be friends.

FM: When I was a kid in 1953 the Braves came here, but I never got to a game ‘til 1955. My first game they were playing the Cubs. And they lost 5 to 4. And I remember it was in September. And I went down with my Dad, my Grandpa and my great uncle and we were coming down Blue Mound road to 60th Street and there is a Catholic Church on the left across from the cemetery. Well, wouldn’t it be they had a fire there in the steeple, and I can remember the trucks and the aerial ladders up – so that was even before we got into the park…I was eight years old. We had stopped at a restaurant by Highway 83 – that restaurant is gone now – it’s where the ski hill was. I can remember being in that restaurant and we were excited about going to the Braves game. We got down there and when we walked into the stadium I couldn’t believe it!! When you walked through the little tunnels that come up to the seats and you’d look at that playing field and it was just like…MAN…!!! This is just overwhelming!!! There was just so much to see and it was so neat to see a real baseball park!! So, I can remember Del Rice was catching – there was a close play at home – the umpire called the guy safe and Del Rice took that ball and he threw it on home plate and that ball flew up into the air at least 15 feet. I kept looking and there it went – I can remember that so vividly!!

DK: Did he get thrown out of the game?

FM: Nope. No, he didn’t.

DK: Wow!

FM: That’s when I got to see Eddie for the first time. I had heard about him, but hadn’t seen him. After that I’d get to probably five, six games a year maybe.

DK: Had you listened to the games on the radio?

FM: Yes, listened to them every night or day with Dad or Grandpa. So that was a continuous thing. We couldn’t get enough of the Braves – and it was that way everywhere.

DK: I remember…

FM: It was like there was magic in this state – no matter where you were – all they talked about was the Braves, Eddie Mathews – Eddie Mathews name was the first name that came to anybody – it was Eddie. And then Aaron when he got here and Spahn and they talked about those guys too, but, it was always Eddie. Eddie was Wisconsin’s hero. There was no doubt about that, because he still is. You talk to most people and that’s what they’ll say about it. Everybody loved the Braves and we’d go down there and as I got older we’d sit outside until they were done playing and then we’d get their autographs. So, Johnny would come out, Logan, and there would be a swarm of kids around him and he’d be walking and talking and he’d just be going “Wait, wait till I get to the car, then I’ll sign”. And everybody would say “OK” and we’d line up and we’d have some stuff for him to sign and he’d only open his window halfway, but he’d sign. He was really good about that. And then Eddie would walk out and everybody was just swarming him – he’d sign, he’d walk and sign and he’d get to his car and keep signing. And I can remember when he had Eddie, Jr. one day – he walked out with him and he (Eddie Jr.) looked just like his dad – it was unreal. And he signed some more and a guy came up to him and handed him some venison steaks because he knew Eddie liked them, so Eddie said, “Hey, come over to my house and have a few beers sometime, too.” He was so down to earth!! Then we would get everyone’s autographs, but the only bad one, the only one who wouldn’t sign for us kids- why I don’t know – it was Aaron, he would not sign. He’d walk right by you and people would say “Hey, Hank!” and he wouldn’t do it. The only time I saw him sign was for a kid in a wheel chair in that parking lot. So, in the 1965 season, the lame duck season, the Braves had just lost a double-header and me, my buddy and my cousin decided to go down to the game, so we did. Eddie didn’t play – he was hurt. We waited for them to get out and they were getting on the bus, because they were going to fly out or something, so they went right to the bus. I saw Aaron get on the bus and he was sitting by the window so I went up to him with a scorecard and I asked him to sign it and he signed it and I about fell off!! I thought, “Oh man, this is something”, but he did sign it. Then Joey Jay- I can remember him walking out and then Johnny Antonelli when he came back, he signed… and Lou Burdette…he wouldn’t sign the one night Spahn threw his 300th victory; I was there that night. Burdette was so nice and he came up to me and I said “Lou, can I have your autograph?” and he put his arm around me and said, “Son, you don’t want my autograph”…And I said, “Yes, I do” and I talked to him – and we kept walking and talking, but he wouldn’t sign. (Laughs) I was there the night of Spahn’s 300th victory and Gino Cimoli was playing left and he made a shoestring catch – saved the game – they won 2-1 over the Cubs. Eddie threw a ball in the stands in the last inning – I remember that. Which you seldom ever saw something like that, but he did, it went right into the stands from third base. They won 2-1 and Gino Cimoli hit a two- run homer to win the game. I sat in the upper deck on the right side – first base – it was just marvelous sitting in that stadium. I miss that stadium – I don’t like Miller Park at all – I’d like County Stadium back. Even when the Brewers were there – there’s something about that stadium…being in that stadium…it had a beautiful view at night – it was so pretty with all the lights in the city…and the Johnston Cookie factory down the road there – then they had all the trains going by – and it was really neat back then. It was a great time for me, I just loved going down there. I loved being in that stadium. But I loved it when the Braves were there, but when they moved everybody was just sick. There are people yet that hate them for moving – they’ll still get mad if you talk to them. They don’t want anything to do with them. They don’t want anything to do with Atlanta. They don’t even want to talk about it – they’re so miserable that they lost their team – and a lot of people think that was a dirty trick that they pulled. If Fred Miller had been alive then – there was no way he would have ever let that team move. It would have still been there.

DK: He’d probably own it.

FM: Yep, yep. He never would have let what Selig did, he never would have let – Selig was supposed to be a big Braves guy, but to me he was a traitor for ripping down that stadium. It was all money and now he lost it all. And they’re so far in debt they’re never going to get out.

DK: The Brewers you mean?

FM: Yeah, but they put this Little League field there, which is alright, but if they had to rip the stadium down they could’ve left that playing field there. That would’ve been so neat, because people could’ve walked on there and could’ve said, “Hey, this is where Eddie played, Spahnie, all the guys on the National league, all the guys on the American league, for the All Star Game, the Yankees, Mickey Mantle”. There are so many heroes there and you could have walked down this field where they played. Now you look at Miller Park and you say, “Who’s played there? Oh, Mark McGuire and Sammy Sosa. Oh, what did they do – oh, really nothing. Just took steroids”. That’s the way I feel about that. Because I told Eddie after McGuire hit 70 home runs I said, “Well, I tell you if you and Hank were still playing…if he hit 70, you would have hit 100”. That’s true. But… anyway…the way I got to meet Eddie was I’d see him when I’d get autographs, but then-later- he was a scout for the Oakland A’s. And he would come here to check out the Madison Muskies.

DK: And what year was that?

FM: That was in 1983. But in ’84 is when I met him. He would scout the games then he would go over to the closest pub – the closest gin mill – that’s what he would call them.

DK: To have “a pop”…

FM: Yeah, a little treat. So, he’d go over there and I didn’t know it at the time, but a couple of my buddies told me. And they said, “Come on, we’re going to meet him – we got this all set up”. And I said, “Oh man, this is gonna be great!” So I went over there and I got to meet him and I sat and drank with him.

DK: Did he remember you from before—-in the autograph days?

FM: No, no. But I told him. Then I showed him his batting stance. I went through that. He liked that. Then he said “I’m in the book, just call me in San Diego”. I said “ok”. So I started calling him and we’d talk, then he would come back for shows and things and I’d see him. He was here twice in the last couple of years that he was alive. It was so great to be with him and the last time I saw him was at a card show and then we went to his daughter’s home and we had a great time there. Afterwards I took him to the hotel and Bob Buhl was there, too, so then we just sat and talked and listened to stories and it was just a ball and that was the last time I got to see him. That was the last time I was with him.

DK: How long was that before he died?

FM: Well, that was in August and he died in February…But I’d been e-mailing him and talking to him on the ‘phone and then he went into the hospital. Stephanie and Johnny went out to see him just before he died.

DK: And you were in contact with them?

FM: Yeah, all the time. And then, they went out and saw him in the hospital and he was on a respirator and they told him I said” hi”, and he said “hi” to me and they said he was getting better and he was sitting up in bed signing autographs. And then he took a turn for the worse. I had a CD of our band, because he liked country music, but we had some delays getting it finished so I got it out to him too late and he didn’t get to hear it. So then, the last game they played at County Stadium, I was at that game. I dressed up in his jersey and cap and took his jacket and bat. I asked the Brewers when I got down there if I could put his cap, bat and jacket on home plate and they made a big deal about it and said if you had told us a couple of days ago about this – but this is all worked out and we can’t change it. So I just said, “That’s fine”…so all they did was have a moment of silence, but I could have run out on the field for him or had Johnny or somebody and I had told the family I was going to do this. Well, they had this piped into Eddie’s room so he got to see it. He was supposed to be there, but he couldn’t come back. So, when I was out there in the parking lot… everybody thought I was Eddie. They were coming up to me thinking I was Eddie. They were taking pictures and wanting autographs and I said “I’m not Eddie”. And they said, “oh, yes, you are”. I said “no, I’m not”. And they said “well, we want your autograph” and I said, “well, I’ll give you my autograph but I’m going to tell you what I’m going to do; I’m going to sign my name but I’m going to print ‘FOR EDDIE MATHEWS’ cause he can’t be here”. They said “Oh, that’s fine”. So I must have signed 200 of them. I went through the stands and let them hold the bat and jacket and everything, you know, and they were yelling at me “Hey, Eddie”. There were about 20 people I couldn’t convince that I wasn’t Eddie. They thought I was. So, it was kinda neat to do that, I just wish I could’ve got on the field and ran over to third base like he used to. It would’ve been kinda neat, but to me the Brewers organization-they don’t care about the history of the Braves at all – they just don’t want anything to do with the Braves. So that’s how I met Eddie and became friends with the family and I’m still real good friends with the family and Eddie’s first wife, Virjean. She’s a neat lady. And I still see all of them and we have a nice – I don’t know – almost like a familial relationship.

DK: Any stories about Eddie’s family?

FM: Well…I’ll talk about Johnny. Johnny was really close to his Dad. He got to be the ball boy for Atlanta. And he told me a lot of stories. He was his Dad’s companion. They were of the same mold. And they liked to do things together and they just got along well and Johnny was there when Hank hit that 715th home run. So Eddie told him, “Johnny, you go up to Hank and congratulate him”. And Johnny was afraid, because he was young and very hesitant. But he went and did it. Johnny was very shy and Hank was a superhero. Another story…He switched with the ball boys behind the plate the last time Phil Niekro pitched a no hitter. He said, “ I just want to watch him pitch” and he threw the no-hitter. So, Johnny was proud of that.

DK: Was he running balls out? Was he the dugout ball boy?

FM: Yeah, so he got to see the whole thing and got to sit behind home plate…back by the fence. So he got to see it all. He’s got a lot of stories – he tells me a lot. He was really proud to be the ball boy and learned a lot there and he’s still got his uniform from Atlanta. And he got to meet a lot of people like Dusty Baker and Darryl Evans. Darryl Evans showed up at his Dad’s funeral. That was real nice. Aaron wasn’t there but he sent some flowers.

DK: Any more things about the family, Stephanie, Eddie Jr. or anything like that?

FM: Eddie Jr. is an anaesthetist. He really looked like Eddie when he was young.

DK: I’ve seen pictures. Anything about Stephanie?

FM: She’s a real sweetheart. She’s looks a lot like her mother, but she looks like Eddie, too. She’s just a sweet lady – very down to earth. Never cared that her dad was famous – well she cared that he was famous, but they never talked to anybody about stuff.

DK: Talk about the Braves players. You did that a little bit and you mentioned some more people when you were talking about your vehicle. Talk about the other guys.

FM: I just want to say one thing that’s about Eddie: Bob Buege interviewed Eddie and wrote a book about him and I just want to say Bob had Eddie down – if you read the book… it is Eddie talking. He had him down so well – I told him that the other day. I said you had him – it was Eddie talking – you can hear him talking.

DK: I didn’t hear Eddie talk as much as you did, but, for the amount I did hear him – I agree – he nailed it.

FM: Ok, the other players. I think one of the most gentlemanly is Del Crandall. I think you can’t find a finer person than that guy. He was kinda out of the spotlight. Everyone knew him, but he was kinda like Aaron – he didn’t make a big deal about things and he stayed away from drinking and all that. I think there was a real gentleman. I think his backup, Del Rice, I think he was a great guy who didn’t get the recognition – he didn’t get to play all the time, but I thought he was a heck of a catcher.

DK: He was.

FM: And Bob Buhl, him and Eddie were really close all those years.

DK: We have pictures of them in the locker room.

FM: They went hunting and fishing together – they did a lot together. And the last time I saw Buhl was at the last game at County Stadium – and they brought him in on the cart – he couldn’t walk.

DK: But he got off the cart at third base and walked-slooowly-over to the mound and got a standing ovation…unbelievable…!!!

FM: Yep, yep. And see his wife died and he had a lot of problems and one day he was at a card show up at Midway (Motor Lodge) with Eddie. When I talked to Eddie he said “take Bob out to the bar…when I get done signing I’ll come out”. I said, “ok”. Bob said, “Ok, I’m ready but I got to go real slow, I might have to sit down”. I said. “ that’s fine – we’ve got all day”. So, then I had a nice talk with him and we got about halfway there and he said “Mike, I have to sit down”. I said “that’s ok”. So we did and we sat there for 20 minutes. We just talked. Then we went out there to the table and sat down and Johnny Mathews came out and we were all sitting there, and Chico Carrasquel and somebody else was there and we were all drinking and talking. Then Eddie came and he and Bob started telling stories. I mean it was just great! I just sat there and listened – I didn’t say anything – because that’s the best thing you do – you know just keep them talking. If you would start firing stuff at them or you’re not listening to them – they’re not going to talk. So then, Eddie was clowning around and we were talking about singing and he said, “ yeah, I’m going to be singing a song and I’m going to be FROG” – because that’s when he had throat cancer and that’s when he lost his voice pretty much. He couldn’t talk very well – he could still talk, but it was, you know…tough…And he beat the cancer – he beat it!! So, Buhl and Eddie were two buddies who went through a lot together…and how ironic is it that they died on the same week-end…Bob died February 16th, 2001 and Eddie died February 18th, 2001.

DK: Don’t you have a story about Joe Adcock?

FM: I got one when I was a kid and I’m waiting outside the stadium to get autographs and Joe came out and he had those colored postcards…?

DK: The Bill & Bob’s…?

FM: Yeah. Well, he had a bunch of those and he was walking to his car and I asked him “Joe, can I have your autograph” and he goes “Yeah!” And he had a real high voice and you wouldn’t put that voice to him – him being a big guy like that. And he had dark black hair and he combed it back to the side. With a hat on you never saw that and you would think, “man, oh, man”. And I said “can I have your autograph” and he said”yes” and I can’t remember what I said to him but I can remember him saying “I cain’t, I cain’t!” And I don’t know what it was I asked him. But he signed a beautiful signature and he signed for everybody – he just gave the cards –and that’s how he did that. He was a real gentleman – he was quiet…and he married a Wisconsin girl.

DK: Ok, Jack Dittmer?

FM: Ok, I didn’t know much about him when he came – it was real early. And they got Danny O’Connell right away, so, I’ve only known him since the association. I know he’s a great guy. I know he’s got the car dealership – I know people that go down there and they see him and then they’ll come back and tell me, because I’ll tell them to go see him. But, that’s about all.

DK: Talk about Johnny Logan…

FM: Oh…Johnny. Ha, Ha, Ha! Here’s a 78-year-old kid. The guy is really strong. He’s a tough guy – he really is. Because he acts like he’s 20 years old. He works out every day. He’s in great health – he’s moving all the time – he’s never sitting around except for his nap. But, I remember when he was playing and then I would go to card shows – he’d be there and you’d go up to him and say “hi” and he’d say, “I’m not signing today, I’m not signing today.” Well, nobody really cared, but that would be the first thing he’d say. But, he’d talk to you. He’s told a lot of stories about the Braves and a lot of stories about him and Eddie. One I can remember was him and Eddie walking down the street in Boston and a couple of Navy guys in uniforms were walking toward them and Johnny said, “Hey, those guys are in uniform, they’re going to be walking right up to us.” And Eddie said “So what.” Johnny said “What are we going to do?” Eddie just said “Nothing – don’t worry about it.” And Johnny walked up to him and said “Aren’t you going to do anything?” “Well, what shall I do?” Johnny said, “Well, I don’t know – well are they going to move or are we going to move?” Eddie said, “I don’t know, we’re just going to keep walking.” Ha, Ha, Ha! This many years later I can’t believe that it was always Buhl, Spahn, Burdette and Eddie hanging out together. Johnny wasn’t really palling around with those guys all the time. And you think he would have been. But, Johnny told that one story about they’d go out, Eddie, Spahnie, Burdette and Buhl, and they’d be drinking every night, and Eddie would have a hangover when they’d be playing and he’d tell Johnny “oh man” – and Johnny would say “Don’t you see what’s going on?” Eddie’d say, “What do you mean?” And Johnny’d say, “Those guys are pitchers, they got the day off – you don’t!!” Ha, ha, ha!!

DK: How about the outfielders…

FM: Andy Pafko – I’d watch him in left field – and do the head first slide, and there was another gentleman, a real sweetheart. Bruton was too. But he lied about his age… like 10 years or something. And I don’t know if he was the one who started that – and I want to say someone else started that – Perini or somebody started the lie. But, he just went along with it. He came into the league with people thinking he was a 21 year old rookie and he was actually a 31 year old rookie.

DK: Who else?

FM: I loved to watch Buhl pitch and Carlton Willey. I loved to watch him and I loved Spahn and Burdette – I loved to see them pitch. I liked it when Carlton pitched – I liked his style – and Buhl, too. I loved watching them. And then they had Red Murff for awhile, relief pitcher, I watched him… and I liked that motorscooter thing that they hauled pitchers in on.

DK: That was so cool! I wonder what ever happened to that?

FM: I do too. I know where the last one they had – it ended up in Atlanta, but it came back here to Fort Atkinson. They had it in an antique store and I think it might be gone now. They wanted $11,000.00 for it. It just had a picture of the laughing Brave – that’s all it had on it. I saw it, I went and looked at it. If he would have said $2000.00 I would have bought it. Not $11,000.00.

DK: Talk about Felix Mantilla…

FM: Skinny guy when he was playing. But there is a down to earth guy who likes to be around people and likes to have fun and he’s a gentleman, too.

DK: I know he is. And his wife seems to be a sweetheart, too.

FM: Yeah, Kay is really nice and they fit together perfect. They have been here (fire station) and I’ve cooked them a meal and I took them over to the Mallard’s game and he threw out the first pitch. That’s one thing…I lined him and Johnny up over there with Steve Schmidt – the guy that owns it. He asked me, “do you think you could get Johnny?” I said, “Well I’ll talk to him”. So I did and I got Felix, too. But Felix he was a great player, I mean he was a really terrific player and I think in ’59 that was a dirty deal – and they blamed him – and that throw wasn’t that bad. Torre just didn’t get it on the bounce. And some people really blamed Felix and I don’t think that’s right. He was a great utility player – he could play anywhere. That was a nice thing…when he went with Boston – I mean he was a great player there – he did really well!!

DK: Talk a little bit about the Milwaukee Braves Historical Association. Start back as far as you can think about where it started and where you got hooked up with it and then end up what the “historian” (Mike’s title with the Historical Association Board is “Historian”) is about and all that kind of stuff.

FM: Well, the place where it really occurred was Johnny and Eddie and Tony Pipita? I’m not sure how to spell it. They were all sitting around and Tony owned a Mama-Mia’s – he bought it out – it’s called Pappa’s – it’s not Mama-Mia’s. So they were just messing around one day talking about the association and Johnny wanted to get it going. So him and Tony and Bud Lea, I guess, they’re the ones who got it going. And they had the meetings at Tony’s place on Burleigh. So then, about I don’t know how many months into it I heard about it and I called them and talked to them and told them I wanted to join. Johnny happened to be there and I talked to Johnny for awhile. And then I called Tony back and I said my wife does embroidery and I have an idea for this association. So I told them, you know, and I told Johnny and they told me to come down to their place sometime and show them. So I made up a polo shirt and the first one I made up I had a left handed batter for Eddie. He was the first one. I had Milwaukee Braves Historical Association – this was before I did any of this stuff. I got the idea, you know. So then, I told them I was coming down and I called up Johnny Mathews and I took him with me. He knows Tony and Johnny. We got there and they were in a meeting and they came out to the bar with Bud Lea and I showed them this stuff. In fact, I put it on a cap, too. And they liked it. And they said, “could you do anything else with it?” And I said, “yeah, I can do stuff with it”. They said, “ok, come down to the next meeting”. And I started going to the meetings and I wasn’t a member, but Johnny said you come down and sit at these meetings.

DK: When you say member – you’re talking member of the board?

FM: Yeah, so it was about the fifth meeting maybe – no maybe longer than that – maybe the eighth, ninth, somewhere around there. Bob Allen (former Braves statistician and assistant to Donald Davidson) nominated me to be on the board – and it passed just like that – right there. So then I got going and I gave them some ideas and I got the embroidery going with all the logos and started trying to do other things – sold stuff at the dinners – we started all these dinners (banquets for the members). And then we met at Tony’s place all the time and then we started moving different places. And then this association was really growing and we kept getting new members and people were interested in the Braves and then we got good dinners where more people showed up-I mean players, not just one. Of course we got all the regular ones all the time, but got to get them mixed around more. And then I got a lot of ideas yet, but I can’t do anything about them right now. I love being a board member – I really do. But I just think, you know, I hope we get back to having meetings at least once a month. As far as a historian goes – I kinda got tagged with that – I didn’t really want that, because I don’t know everything about the Braves and I don’t claim to, but the one part of it is the uniforms and I’m really big on that and I can tell you a lot about that – I can tell you if they’re real or not – and I can tell you where they’re from and I can tell you the detail, point out things, but as far as a historian – I am only somewhat of an historian. I’m not a great historian like Bob Buege or you and a few others – you all know a lot more of this than I do. I can’t name every date and things like that – but that’s what they tagged me with – I didn’t really want that on there, but I wanted more…just being around the Braves, I guess.

DK: Let’s talk about your memorabilia.

FM: I started collecting this stuff – the stuff that I had when I was a kid – I can’t find it – I don’t know what happened to it. I had a lot of signatures on scorecards. And there were treasured ones, but they are gone as far as I know – I don’t know what happened to them. That postcard with Adcock – I don’t know what happened to it. And he signed it ‘To Mike Best Wishes – Joe Adcock’. I started collecting the rest of this stuff around ’89 or ’90…the bulk of it from ’96-2004. The main part consists of Eddie Mathews stuff… Bob Buege (co-author of Eddie Mathews and the National Pastime) calls it the “Shrine of Eddie Mathews”…which I guess you could. I got jerseys, caps, bats, pants, jackets, bags, gloves – and this is all of Eddies – the locker tag from Shea Stadium. I’ve got three minor league team balls from each year he was in the minors. The one I’m really exceptionally happy about that I got was the one from the Hi-Toms (High Point-Thomasville Hi-Toms of the Class D North Carolina State League.) And it was signed by all the players and they’re named in his book. Then I’ve got the one from the Atlanta Crackers which he signed and all the players. And I got the one ’51 from the Brewers and he only played seven or eight games and he hit a grand slam in one of them. One thing I’m trying to find out is what his number was then. I’m trying to find that.

DK: For the ’51 Brewers? How come you don’t know that? Never asked?

FM: Well, I’ve never found a program or anything, yeah, I’ve tried getting scorecards and that, you know.

DK: You ought to be able to find that.

FM: That’s what I think, too. I’d like to find it for the Crackers and the Hi-Toms, too. All of them. He was #10 when he was with Houston and he was #7 with Detroit. And he was #41 with the Braves and #41 when he managed and coached. I’m really proud of those three balls – especially the Hi-Toms one. There’s a story behind that one. A guy told me it was his Grandmother’s. It was given to her when she worked for a man and lady cleaning house and she cleaned the house one day and they said we’re going to the ballgame. Her favorite was Eddie. This is when she was really young and so was he. So, they got her a ball and they had everybody sign it and she gave it to her grandson who, later put it on ebay. And I saw it and it was pretty neat, he said she got that ball and she was crazy about Eddie. And then she gave it to him and then he sells it. So he sent me a picture and an article from a paper about the ballpark there – it’s still there. They’ve got a banner with Eddie’s number on it and so he sent me a picture of that. Pretty neat, huh? And then it showed a picture of him standing outside the gate with the ball. So I got that. And I‘ve got a lot of model bats (store bats) that were Eddie’s. And they’re all different models. They’re all Eddie’s. I’ve got other bats – pro bats – Johnny Logan, Roy McMillan, but the rest are Eddie’s. In fact I have a coach’s bat, a fungo bat and I’ve got a jersey from Ernie Johnson. I’ve got ‘Old Timers’ jerseys, like Red Schoendienst; either Bobby Avila’s or Roy McMillan’s, because there is no tag on it – just number 11. And the same for the big guy – can’t think of his name…oh, yeah, Len Gabrielson. Well, I’ve got one from Billy Martin, too. He was a Brave for only two months. And then I got Lou Burdette’s warm-up jacket and I’ve got Eddie’s warm-up jacket – the last one he wore. I’ve got jerseys from when he managed…and pants…and caps – I’ve got a pair of Hank Aaron’s stirrups – Andy Pafko’s spikes, Del Crandall’s spikes. I do have Eddie’s Boston cap – one of his caps from when he was a rookie. I’ve got a Hank Aaron cap when he played in the ‘60’s here in Milwaukee. I’ve got different little Braves things that are just memorabilia…Frank Thomas’ cap and undershirt…lots more…

DK: Cool! Was this (the main “museum” room) originally a fireman’s bedroom?

FM: That was a dining room, that part was. And there’s stuff out in the hallway. I do like that shot of County Stadium that I picked up at one of Troy’s (Kinunen) auctions. That’s out in the hallway – I think that’s a neat shot.

DK: I like that Miller sign down there on the stairs that says Braves on it. It’s old fashioned.

FM: I got that from my good friend Artie Rickun when he was on Burleigh. Ha, ha. That’s gotta be at least 12 years ago…Time flies when you’re having fun…

DK: Well, I think we should try to get some pictures. They’ll be way better than a thousand words…

Michael Fuss is a big man…if you were trapped in a burning building, you’d hope a guy this big was coming to get you out! Michael Fuss has a big heart; he’s generous and kind to his friends; he makes sure his “family” gets to the doctor or the grocery store and everyone in the neighborhood knows him!! He’s got a big, deep voice – Fireman Mike Fuss is a big, gruff, garrulous guy. Mike is a fixture in Madison for a number of reasons; he’s lived here forever; he’s been in the neighborhood almost forever; he was with the Madison Fire Department for 31 years; he still (at his advanced age) plays in a couple of softball leagues and he plays pedal steel guitar in a very popular Madison band. A collector of firehouse-related, fire truck related items, Mike’s been featured in numerous newspaper and magazine articles. He lives in Old Fire Station # 8 – it houses his collection of fire trucks and his collection of Eddie Mathews/Milwaukee Braves memorabilia…and he loves giving tours!! It might be a tad presumptuous to refer to Mike as a renaissance man; however, his interests are certainly broad. He was – and sometimes, still is – the firehouse cook. Most firehouses operate on a so-many-days-on-duty, so-many-days-off-duty schedule so during on-duty days they eat and sleep at the firehouse… It didn’t take long for people to realize that Mike is a terrific cook!! Sometimes I think I can actually feel my arteries hardening but, may gosh, is it good!!

He is also a very fine musician – not just player-musician! I could introduce you to dozens of hugely talented guitarists who at some point in their careers thought it would be helpful, cool and fun to add pedal steel to the list of instruments they’d mastered. The majority of those fine players came away from that endeavor beaten, bruised and humbled…Pedal steel guitar is difficult to learn and still more difficult to play well…Mike plays it very well! Furthermore, as the lead singer in the band, it appears he knows all the words to all the songs written since 1951. Did I mention the fire safety classes he teaches and the softball games every week and the fact that he’s on the Milwaukee Braves Historical Association’s board of directors? If you call him, don’t be at all surprised to be asked – gruffly – to leave a message and he’ll call you back – he will, too!

A few years ago Mike remodeled the upstairs part of the firehouse into living areas and his Eddie Mathews/Milwaukee Braves museum. Mike and Eddie became friends in the early 1980’s when Eddie was working with/scouting the Madison Muskies baseball team. Before I ever met Mike I remember seeing him at card memorabilia shows. After Eddie had finished signing autographs, the two of them – and sometimes wives – and sometimes other players – would go off in the huge motor home to get supper and a “pop”. I don’t think either of them ever went out for a “drink” – they went out for a “pop”…Eddie’s term, I think…

My wife, Gayle, and I had the good fortune to visit the Mathews-Braves-firehouse shrine in October 2005. It blew away our expectations (which were pretty high anyway)!! One of the things I hadn’t really given thought to – Mike’s warm and private relationship with Eddie and with the Mathews family. He has stuff no one else would have had access to…add to that the friendships with other Braves players that developed out of his close relationship with Eddie…it has all made for a great tribute to a great player and a great team!!

Here’s the interview – I’m in the firehouse home of Fireman Mike Fuss…

DK: Well, here we are with Mike Fuss. Tell us a little about yourself, Mike…

FM: Well, I was born October 19, 1947 in Madison, WI . I’m 57 years old, my birthday is six days after my hero, Eddie Mathews’ birthday. I wanted to be a fireman since I was four years old and, when I grew up a little more, I wanted to play for the Milwaukee Braves. So I wanted to do two things; well, I accomplished one and I feel like I’m a part of the Milwaukee Braves organization and that makes me feel really good. So, you could kinda say I accomplished both – at least I’m around it. And I was on the fire department for 31 yrs – I retired five years ago. I have a son and a stepson- both of their names are Mike-and they’re both on the Madison fire department. I live in an old fire station on Madison’s northeast side – close to Oscar Mayer’s. I grew up in this neighborhood – I lived four blocks away from this fire station and I used to come down here every day when I was a kid. My son, Mike Jr., was up in Wisconsin Rapids for four years on their fire department, then he came here and has been on here for nine years. My stepson, Mike, was on the fire department in Milwaukee for five years and he’s been on here (Madison) for 12 years. I have a daughter, Julie, who is married and lives up by Lodi and has two children. My son, Mike, has two children and my other son, Mike, has two children. So it’s two, two and two. (He laughs) I have lived in this fire station for 15 years. It was my life’s dream to be stationed here and I was for the last two years it was open. So now I have tours once in awhile, not like I used to, but it’s still open to the public. And I have a Milwaukee Braves display to show people. It’s very interesting, I think. And I just love the people to see this. So if anybody is interested all they have to do is just get a hold of me and they can come and see it.

DK: How would they get a hold of you, Mike?

FM: Call 608-244-6732 or my cell phone 608-669-4141 (Eddie Mathew’s #). I also have e-mail, the address is mfuss@merr.com. I also play in a country/western band and we have a website, zip-country.com, so you can see our schedule. You’ll see a list of bands and ours is Cherokee and that will also give you a photo and biography and our schedule for the year. We play old country and western and 50’s & 60’s music. We could do a whole night of either if we would have to.

DK: Would you talk about the fire trucks and the firehouse?

FM: This fire station was built in 1948 and was opened in 1949. When I was coming down here there was only one fire truck and it was really special to me. It was the first fire engine I really got to spend time around…I drew pictures of it…I followed it to fires whenever I could. It was involved in an accident January 15, 1959. The station was opened Jan 15, 1949 – so it was 10 yrs before the truck was involved in an accident. I got pretty sentimentally attached to it. It was replaced by a pumper and an aerial ladder truck and I have all three of those trucks in the station. I also have two other trucks in stations in Madison. The station is still open for tours but not as much, because I’ve got a lot of other stuff going on so it takes up more and more of my time.

DK: What kinds of trucks are those?

FM: The one that is very special to me is a 1941 Pirsch. It was made in Kenosha, WI. The pumper that replaced it with a 1959 FWD made in Clintonville, WI. The aerial ladder is a 1959 Pirsch from Kenosha. And I have a 1950 Pirsch aerial ladder and a 1956 pumper. I did have another 1956 Pirsch pumper that was a twin to this one, but I sold it. I also had a 1959 Pirsch pumper from Monona, WI and I also sold that. This station is a three bay station, it used to house the quad – that’s the one that’s special to me – and it housed an engine and an aerial – then they built an addition where they put an ambulance when we got ambulance service in 1965. So, at various times, there were between 6 and 10 men stationed here. And I used to cook and I also drove the ambulance.

DK: Any exciting stories from the fire dept that we ought to throw in here? I’m sure there were some…

FM: Yes, I did get to work with both of my sons before I retired which was really nice. And I did go to a few fires with them. And I did get close to biting the dust or kicking the bucket at a fire at the Salvation Army downtown Madison in 1976. The fire was at 2:00 A.M. and only five blocks away and we could smell it as soon as we walked out the door. So we knew we had a fire right away. So we got there and were told to search the building – we did that – we didn’t find anyone and then we were told to go to the roof and ventilate. We got up there and I had a saw – I tried to get through the roof and I couldn’t through it. I looked around and about 15 feet away I saw the flames, this fire was really gaining and I felt that the fire was right underneath us. So I told the officer we’d better get off this roof. And he agreed…there were three of us. We got down and in just minutes maybe (I was on a hand line-a fire hose) and all of a sudden this building collapsed right where we’d been. We’d just got out of where all that happened. Then the wall came right down at us so I just threw the nozzle and the bricks were flying and we just got out of there – but if we had been up on that roof we would have all been dead because we’d been down in the middle of the building, in the middle of the fire. So that was a very, very close call. And my name is Michael and I am sure St. Michael the archangel had a little something to do with that – he was protecting me.

DK: I believe that – I believe that. (Pause…) Um… talk a little about that funky motor home…

FM: OK… I’ve got a motor home that’s a 1999 Tropicale. It’s made in California and is a 36 footer. I’ve been to Branson, Nashville, I’ve been to Mississippi, Arkansas, Missouri, up north in Wisconsin. Then one day I was going down the road with my wife while she was driving and I decided I had never got to see the back of it going down the road. So I decided when we were coming back – not too far from your house in IL – coming back from Kentucky. And I thought wouldn’t it be nice to have a nice mural of the Braves up there. I could see the Braves script and a tomahawk and I thought that sure would be neat and that’s what I did. And I added Milwaukee Braves Historical Association. Then I decided I needed something else on there, so I added my hero, Eddie Mathews. Then I thought I gotta have somebody else, so I had Hank, then I added Spahnie, then I thought we should have the president of the Milwaukee Braves Historical Association so I put Johnny Logan on there and then I added Felix Mantilla because he’s such a great guy and I thought he deserved to be on there, too. Then I have the tomahawk and the “Braves” on the front and I have Eddie’s number 41 on the side and on the back and it’s just kind of a thing I like. It’s nice to drive down the road and people wave at you – they like the Braves and stuff on it. Kind of a neat thing and I love it.

DK: Good. Talk a little bit about the fact that at your great advanced age you’re still playing ball.

FM: Well I’ve always loved to play baseball and I played it but was not major league caliber – not even minor league caliber. But I had fun doing it. Then I started playing softball and I played that most of my adult life and I am still playing slow pitch softball one night a week and I just love it because I’m the catcher. I tore my rotator cuff – ripped it all the way – that was five yrs ago and I had to have surgery. The Doctor said
I’d never play again. But, I just exercise and do everything and still do it every day. And I throw the ball, but I don’t trust it – I used to play 3rd base and the outfield, but catching is great because I get to run a lot – I like to run and I love to back up that 1st baseman but I end up backing up everybody, but that’s alright – I’m kind of a take charge guy out in the field and I’m telling them what to do. And they like that cause we’re all older guys. But I love playing and I’m going to keep playing. I had a bad year though.

DK: What does that mean?

FM: Didn’t hit well at all and I was overweight – that had a lot to do with it, and I couldn’t run as well as I wanted to and I just couldn’t hit.

DK: Isn’t that terrible?

FM: Yeah, it’s just bad.

DK: I know. I finally had to quit. So…start somewhere far back, I mean you used to go see the games in Milwaukee; start somewhere there, work this way in time to when you and Eddie got to be friends.

FM: When I was a kid in 1953 the Braves came here, but I never got to a game ‘til 1955. My first game they were playing the Cubs. And they lost 5 to 4. And I remember it was in September. And I went down with my Dad, my Grandpa and my great uncle and we were coming down Blue Mound road to 60th Street and there is a Catholic Church on the left across from the cemetery. Well, wouldn’t it be they had a fire there in the steeple, and I can remember the trucks and the aerial ladders up – so that was even before we got into the park…I was eight years old. We had stopped at a restaurant by Highway 83 – that restaurant is gone now – it’s where the ski hill was. I can remember being in that restaurant and we were excited about going to the Braves game. We got down there and when we walked into the stadium I couldn’t believe it!! When you walked through the little tunnels that come up to the seats and you’d look at that playing field and it was just like…MAN…!!! This is just overwhelming!!! There was just so much to see and it was so neat to see a real baseball park!! So, I can remember Del Rice was catching – there was a close play at home – the umpire called the guy safe and Del Rice took that ball and he threw it on home plate and that ball flew up into the air at least 15 feet. I kept looking and there it went – I can remember that so vividly!!

DK: Did he get thrown out of the game?

FM: Nope. No, he didn’t.

DK: Wow!

FM: That’s when I got to see Eddie for the first time. I had heard about him, but hadn’t seen him. After that I’d get to probably five, six games a year maybe.

DK: Had you listened to the games on the radio?

FM: Yes, listened to them every night or day with Dad or Grandpa. So that was a continuous thing. We couldn’t get enough of the Braves – and it was that way everywhere.

DK: I remember…

FM: It was like there was magic in this state – no matter where you were – all they talked about was the Braves, Eddie Mathews – Eddie Mathews name was the first name that came to anybody – it was Eddie. And then Aaron when he got here and Spahn and they talked about those guys too, but, it was always Eddie. Eddie was Wisconsin’s hero. There was no doubt about that, because he still is. You talk to most people and that’s what they’ll say about it. Everybody loved the Braves and we’d go down there and as I got older we’d sit outside until they were done playing and then we’d get their autographs. So, Johnny would come out, Logan, and there would be a swarm of kids around him and he’d be walking and talking and he’d just be going “Wait, wait till I get to the car, then I’ll sign”. And everybody would say “OK” and we’d line up and we’d have some stuff for him to sign and he’d only open his window halfway, but he’d sign. He was really good about that. And then Eddie would walk out and everybody was just swarming him – he’d sign, he’d walk and sign and he’d get to his car and keep signing. And I can remember when he had Eddie, Jr. one day – he walked out with him and he (Eddie Jr.) looked just like his dad – it was unreal. And he signed some more and a guy came up to him and handed him some venison steaks because he knew Eddie liked them, so Eddie said, “Hey, come over to my house and have a few beers sometime, too.” He was so down to earth!! Then we would get everyone’s autographs, but the only bad one, the only one who wouldn’t sign for us kids- why I don’t know – it was Aaron, he would not sign. He’d walk right by you and people would say “Hey, Hank!” and he wouldn’t do it. The only time I saw him sign was for a kid in a wheel chair in that parking lot. So, in the 1965 season, the lame duck season, the Braves had just lost a double-header and me, my buddy and my cousin decided to go down to the game, so we did. Eddie didn’t play – he was hurt. We waited for them to get out and they were getting on the bus, because they were going to fly out or something, so they went right to the bus. I saw Aaron get on the bus and he was sitting by the window so I went up to him with a scorecard and I asked him to sign it and he signed it and I about fell off!! I thought, “Oh man, this is something”, but he did sign it. Then Joey Jay- I can remember him walking out and then Johnny Antonelli when he came back, he signed… and Lou Burdette…he wouldn’t sign the one night Spahn threw his 300th victory; I was there that night. Burdette was so nice and he came up to me and I said “Lou, can I have your autograph?” and he put his arm around me and said, “Son, you don’t want my autograph”…And I said, “Yes, I do” and I talked to him – and we kept walking and talking, but he wouldn’t sign. (Laughs) I was there the night of Spahn’s 300th victory and Gino Cimoli was playing left and he made a shoestring catch – saved the game – they won 2-1 over the Cubs. Eddie threw a ball in the stands in the last inning – I remember that. Which you seldom ever saw something like that, but he did, it went right into the stands from third base. They won 2-1 and Gino Cimoli hit a two- run homer to win the game. I sat in the upper deck on the right side – first base – it was just marvelous sitting in that stadium. I miss that stadium – I don’t like Miller Park at all – I’d like County Stadium back. Even when the Brewers were there – there’s something about that stadium…being in that stadium…it had a beautiful view at night – it was so pretty with all the lights in the city…and the Johnston Cookie factory down the road there – then they had all the trains going by – and it was really neat back then. It was a great time for me, I just loved going down there. I loved being in that stadium. But I loved it when the Braves were there, but when they moved everybody was just sick. There are people yet that hate them for moving – they’ll still get mad if you talk to them. They don’t want anything to do with them. They don’t want anything to do with Atlanta. They don’t even want to talk about it – they’re so miserable that they lost their team – and a lot of people think that was a dirty trick that they pulled. If Fred Miller had been alive then – there was no way he would have ever let that team move. It would have still been there.

DK: He’d probably own it.

FM: Yep, yep. He never would have let what Selig did, he never would have let – Selig was supposed to be a big Braves guy, but to me he was a traitor for ripping down that stadium. It was all money and now he lost it all. And they’re so far in debt they’re never going to get out.

DK: The Brewers you mean?

FM: Yeah, but they put this Little League field there, which is alright, but if they had to rip the stadium down they could’ve left that playing field there. That would’ve been so neat, because people could’ve walked on there and could’ve said, “Hey, this is where Eddie played, Spahnie, all the guys on the National league, all the guys on the American league, for the All Star Game, the Yankees, Mickey Mantle”. There are so many heroes there and you could have walked down this field where they played. Now you look at Miller Park and you say, “Who’s played there? Oh, Mark McGuire and Sammy Sosa. Oh, what did they do – oh, really nothing. Just took steroids”. That’s the way I feel about that. Because I told Eddie after McGuire hit 70 home runs I said, “Well, I tell you if you and Hank were still playing…if he hit 70, you would have hit 100”. That’s true. But… anyway…the way I got to meet Eddie was I’d see him when I’d get autographs, but then-later- he was a scout for the Oakland A’s. And he would come here to check out the Madison Muskies.

DK: And what year was that?

FM: That was in 1983. But in ’84 is when I met him. He would scout the games then he would go over to the closest pub – the closest gin mill – that’s what he would call them.

DK: To have “a pop”…

FM: Yeah, a little treat. So, he’d go over there and I didn’t know it at the time, but a couple of my buddies told me. And they said, “Come on, we’re going to meet him – we got this all set up”. And I said, “Oh man, this is gonna be great!” So I went over there and I got to meet him and I sat and drank with him.

DK: Did he remember you from before—-in the autograph days?

FM: No, no. But I told him. Then I showed him his batting stance. I went through that. He liked that. Then he said “I’m in the book, just call me in San Diego”. I said “ok”. So I started calling him and we’d talk, then he would come back for shows and things and I’d see him. He was here twice in the last couple of years that he was alive. It was so great to be with him and the last time I saw him was at a card show and then we went to his daughter’s home and we had a great time there. Afterwards I took him to the hotel and Bob Buhl was there, too, so then we just sat and talked and listened to stories and it was just a ball and that was the last time I got to see him. That was the last time I was with him.

DK: How long was that before he died?

FM: Well, that was in August and he died in February…But I’d been e-mailing him and talking to him on the ‘phone and then he went into the hospital. Stephanie and Johnny went out to see him just before he died.

DK: And you were in contact with them?

FM: Yeah, all the time. And then, they went out and saw him in the hospital and he was on a respirator and they told him I said” hi”, and he said “hi” to me and they said he was getting better and he was sitting up in bed signing autographs. And then he took a turn for the worse. I had a CD of our band, because he liked country music, but we had some delays getting it finished so I got it out to him too late and he didn’t get to hear it. So then, the last game they played at County Stadium, I was at that game. I dressed up in his jersey and cap and took his jacket and bat. I asked the Brewers when I got down there if I could put his cap, bat and jacket on home plate and they made a big deal about it and said if you had told us a couple of days ago about this – but this is all worked out and we can’t change it. So I just said, “That’s fine”…so all they did was have a moment of silence, but I could have run out on the field for him or had Johnny or somebody and I had told the family I was going to do this. Well, they had this piped into Eddie’s room so he got to see it. He was supposed to be there, but he couldn’t come back. So, when I was out there in the parking lot… everybody thought I was Eddie. They were coming up to me thinking I was Eddie. They were taking pictures and wanting autographs and I said “I’m not Eddie”. And they said, “oh, yes, you are”. I said “no, I’m not”. And they said “well, we want your autograph” and I said, “well, I’ll give you my autograph but I’m going to tell you what I’m going to do; I’m going to sign my name but I’m going to print ‘FOR EDDIE MATHEWS’ cause he can’t be here”. They said “Oh, that’s fine”. So I must have signed 200 of them. I went through the stands and let them hold the bat and jacket and everything, you know, and they were yelling at me “Hey, Eddie”. There were about 20 people I couldn’t convince that I wasn’t Eddie. They thought I was. So, it was kinda neat to do that, I just wish I could’ve got on the field and ran over to third base like he used to. It would’ve been kinda neat, but to me the Brewers organization-they don’t care about the history of the Braves at all – they just don’t want anything to do with the Braves. So that’s how I met Eddie and became friends with the family and I’m still real good friends with the family and Eddie’s first wife, Virjean. She’s a neat lady. And I still see all of them and we have a nice – I don’t know – almost like a familial relationship.

DK: Any stories about Eddie’s family?

FM: Well…I’ll talk about Johnny. Johnny was really close to his Dad. He got to be the ball boy for Atlanta. And he told me a lot of stories. He was his Dad’s companion. They were of the same mold. And they liked to do things together and they just got along well and Johnny was there when Hank hit that 715th home run. So Eddie told him, “Johnny, you go up to Hank and congratulate him”. And Johnny was afraid, because he was young and very hesitant. But he went and did it. Johnny was very shy and Hank was a superhero. Another story…He switched with the ball boys behind the plate the last time Phil Niekro pitched a no hitter. He said, “ I just want to watch him pitch” and he threw the no-hitter. So, Johnny was proud of that.

DK: Was he running balls out? Was he the dugout ball boy?

FM: Yeah, so he got to see the whole thing and got to sit behind home plate…back by the fence. So he got to see it all. He’s got a lot of stories – he tells me a lot. He was really proud to be the ball boy and learned a lot there and he’s still got his uniform from Atlanta. And he got to meet a lot of people like Dusty Baker and Darryl Evans. Darryl Evans showed up at his Dad’s funeral. That was real nice. Aaron wasn’t there but he sent some flowers.

DK: Any more things about the family, Stephanie, Eddie Jr. or anything like that?

FM: Eddie Jr. is an anaesthetist. He really looked like Eddie when he was young.

DK: I’ve seen pictures. Anything about Stephanie?

FM: She’s a real sweetheart. She’s looks a lot like her mother, but she looks like Eddie, too. She’s just a sweet lady – very down to earth. Never cared that her dad was famous – well she cared that he was famous, but they never talked to anybody about stuff.

DK: Talk about the Braves players. You did that a little bit and you mentioned some more people when you were talking about your vehicle. Talk about the other guys.

FM: I just want to say one thing that’s about Eddie: Bob Buege interviewed Eddie and wrote a book about him and I just want to say Bob had Eddie down – if you read the book… it is Eddie talking. He had him down so well – I told him that the other day. I said you had him – it was Eddie talking – you can hear him talking.

DK: I didn’t hear Eddie talk as much as you did, but, for the amount I did hear him – I agree – he nailed it.

FM: Ok, the other players. I think one of the most gentlemanly is Del Crandall. I think you can’t find a finer person than that guy. He was kinda out of the spotlight. Everyone knew him, but he was kinda like Aaron – he didn’t make a big deal about things and he stayed away from drinking and all that. I think there was a real gentleman. I think his backup, Del Rice, I think he was a great guy who didn’t get the recognition – he didn’t get to play all the time, but I thought he was a heck of a catcher.

DK: He was.

FM: And Bob Buhl, him and Eddie were really close all those years.

DK: We have pictures of them in the locker room.

FM: They went hunting and fishing together – they did a lot together. And the last time I saw Buhl was at the last game at County Stadium – and they brought him in on the cart – he couldn’t walk.

DK: But he got off the cart at third base and walked-slooowly-over to the mound and got a standing ovation…unbelievable…!!!

FM: Yep, yep. And see his wife died and he had a lot of problems and one day he was at a card show up at Midway (Motor Lodge) with Eddie. When I talked to Eddie he said “take Bob out to the bar…when I get done signing I’ll come out”. I said, “ok”. Bob said, “Ok, I’m ready but I got to go real slow, I might have to sit down”. I said. “ that’s fine – we’ve got all day”. So, then I had a nice talk with him and we got about halfway there and he said “Mike, I have to sit down”. I said “that’s ok”. So we did and we sat there for 20 minutes. We just talked. Then we went out there to the table and sat down and Johnny Mathews came out and we were all sitting there, and Chico Carrasquel and somebody else was there and we were all drinking and talking. Then Eddie came and he and Bob started telling stories. I mean it was just great! I just sat there and listened – I didn’t say anything – because that’s the best thing you do – you know just keep them talking. If you would start firing stuff at them or you’re not listening to them – they’re not going to talk. So then, Eddie was clowning around and we were talking about singing and he said, “ yeah, I’m going to be singing a song and I’m going to be FROG” – because that’s when he had throat cancer and that’s when he lost his voice pretty much. He couldn’t talk very well – he could still talk, but it was, you know…tough…And he beat the cancer – he beat it!! So, Buhl and Eddie were two buddies who went through a lot together…and how ironic is it that they died on the same week-end…Bob died February 16th, 2001 and Eddie died February 18th, 2001.

DK: Don’t you have a story about Joe Adcock?

FM: I got one when I was a kid and I’m waiting outside the stadium to get autographs and Joe came out and he had those colored postcards…?

DK: The Bill & Bob’s…?

FM: Yeah. Well, he had a bunch of those and he was walking to his car and I asked him “Joe, can I have your autograph” and he goes “Yeah!” And he had a real high voice and you wouldn’t put that voice to him – him being a big guy like that. And he had dark black hair and he combed it back to the side. With a hat on you never saw that and you would think, “man, oh, man”. And I said “can I have your autograph” and he said”yes” and I can’t remember what I said to him but I can remember him saying “I cain’t, I cain’t!” And I don’t know what it was I asked him. But he signed a beautiful signature and he signed for everybody – he just gave the cards –and that’s how he did that. He was a real gentleman – he was quiet…and he married a Wisconsin girl.

DK: Ok, Jack Dittmer?

FM: Ok, I didn’t know much about him when he came – it was real early. And they got Danny O’Connell right away, so, I’ve only known him since the association. I know he’s a great guy. I know he’s got the car dealership – I know people that go down there and they see him and then they’ll come back and tell me, because I’ll tell them to go see him. But, that’s about all.

DK: Talk about Johnny Logan…

FM: Oh…Johnny. Ha, Ha, Ha! Here’s a 78-year-old kid. The guy is really strong. He’s a tough guy – he really is. Because he acts like he’s 20 years old. He works out every day. He’s in great health – he’s moving all the time – he’s never sitting around except for his nap. But, I remember when he was playing and then I would go to card shows – he’d be there and you’d go up to him and say “hi” and he’d say, “I’m not signing today, I’m not signing today.” Well, nobody really cared, but that would be the first thing he’d say. But, he’d talk to you. He’s told a lot of stories about the Braves and a lot of stories about him and Eddie. One I can remember was him and Eddie walking down the street in Boston and a couple of Navy guys in uniforms were walking toward them and Johnny said, “Hey, those guys are in uniform, they’re going to be walking right up to us.” And Eddie said “So what.” Johnny said “What are we going to do?” Eddie just said “Nothing – don’t worry about it.” And Johnny walked up to him and said “Aren’t you going to do anything?” “Well, what shall I do?” Johnny said, “Well, I don’t know – well are they going to move or are we going to move?” Eddie said, “I don’t know, we’re just going to keep walking.” Ha, Ha, Ha! This many years later I can’t believe that it was always Buhl, Spahn, Burdette and Eddie hanging out together. Johnny wasn’t really palling around with those guys all the time. And you think he would have been. But, Johnny told that one story about they’d go out, Eddie, Spahnie, Burdette and Buhl, and they’d be drinking every night, and Eddie would have a hangover when they’d be playing and he’d tell Johnny “oh man” – and Johnny would say “Don’t you see what’s going on?” Eddie’d say, “What do you mean?” And Johnny’d say, “Those guys are pitchers, they got the day off – you don’t!!” Ha, ha, ha!!

DK: How about the outfielders…

FM: Andy Pafko – I’d watch him in left field – and do the head first slide, and there was another gentleman, a real sweetheart. Bruton was too. But he lied about his age… like 10 years or something. And I don’t know if he was the one who started that – and I want to say someone else started that – Perini or somebody started the lie. But, he just went along with it. He came into the league with people thinking he was a 21 year old rookie and he was actually a 31 year old rookie.

DK: Who else?

FM: I loved to watch Buhl pitch and Carlton Willey. I loved to watch him and I loved Spahn and Burdette – I loved to see them pitch. I liked it when Carlton pitched – I liked his style – and Buhl, too. I loved watching them. And then they had Red Murff for awhile, relief pitcher, I watched him… and I liked that motorscooter thing that they hauled pitchers in on.

DK: That was so cool! I wonder what ever happened to that?

FM: I do too. I know where the last one they had – it ended up in Atlanta, but it came back here to Fort Atkinson. They had it in an antique store and I think it might be gone now. They wanted $11,000.00 for it. It just had a picture of the laughing Brave – that’s all it had on it. I saw it, I went and looked at it. If he would have said $2000.00 I would have bought it. Not $11,000.00.

DK: Talk about Felix Mantilla…

FM: Skinny guy when he was playing. But there is a down to earth guy who likes to be around people and likes to have fun and he’s a gentleman, too.

DK: I know he is. And his wife seems to be a sweetheart, too.

FM: Yeah, Kay is really nice and they fit together perfect. They have been here (fire station) and I’ve cooked them a meal and I took them over to the Mallard’s game and he threw out the first pitch. That’s one thing…I lined him and Johnny up over there with Steve Schmidt – the guy that owns it. He asked me, “do you think you could get Johnny?” I said, “Well I’ll talk to him”. So I did and I got Felix, too. But Felix he was a great player, I mean he was a really terrific player and I think in ’59 that was a dirty deal – and they blamed him – and that throw wasn’t that bad. Torre just didn’t get it on the bounce. And some people really blamed Felix and I don’t think that’s right. He was a great utility player – he could play anywhere. That was a nice thing…when he went with Boston – I mean he was a great player there – he did really well!!

DK: Talk a little bit about the Milwaukee Braves Historical Association. Start back as far as you can think about where it started and where you got hooked up with it and then end up what the “historian” (Mike’s title with the Historical Association Board is “Historian”) is about and all that kind of stuff.

FM: Well, the place where it really occurred was Johnny and Eddie and Tony Pipita? I’m not sure how to spell it. They were all sitting around and Tony owned a Mama-Mia’s – he bought it out – it’s called Pappa’s – it’s not Mama-Mia’s. So they were just messing around one day talking about the association and Johnny wanted to get it going. So him and Tony and Bud Lea, I guess, they’re the ones who got it going. And they had the meetings at Tony’s place on Burleigh. So then, about I don’t know how many months into it I heard about it and I called them and talked to them and told them I wanted to join. Johnny happened to be there and I talked to Johnny for awhile. And then I called Tony back and I said my wife does embroidery and I have an idea for this association. So I told them, you know, and I told Johnny and they told me to come down to their place sometime and show them. So I made up a polo shirt and the first one I made up I had a left handed batter for Eddie. He was the first one. I had Milwaukee Braves Historical Association – this was before I did any of this stuff. I got the idea, you know. So then, I told them I was coming down and I called up Johnny Mathews and I took him with me. He knows Tony and Johnny. We got there and they were in a meeting and they came out to the bar with Bud Lea and I showed them this stuff. In fact, I put it on a cap, too. And they liked it. And they said, “could you do anything else with it?” And I said, “yeah, I can do stuff with it”. They said, “ok, come down to the next meeting”. And I started going to the meetings and I wasn’t a member, but Johnny said you come down and sit at these meetings.

DK: When you say member – you’re talking member of the board?

FM: Yeah, so it was about the fifth meeting maybe – no maybe longer than that – maybe the eighth, ninth, somewhere around there. Bob Allen (former Braves statistician and assistant to Donald Davidson) nominated me to be on the board – and it passed just like that – right there. So then I got going and I gave them some ideas and I got the embroidery going with all the logos and started trying to do other things – sold stuff at the dinners – we started all these dinners (banquets for the members). And then we met at Tony’s place all the time and then we started moving different places. And then this association was really growing and we kept getting new members and people were interested in the Braves and then we got good dinners where more people showed up-I mean players, not just one. Of course we got all the regular ones all the time, but got to get them mixed around more. And then I got a lot of ideas yet, but I can’t do anything about them right now. I love being a board member – I really do. But I just think, you know, I hope we get back to having meetings at least once a month. As far as a historian goes – I kinda got tagged with that – I didn’t really want that, because I don’t know everything about the Braves and I don’t claim to, but the one part of it is the uniforms and I’m really big on that and I can tell you a lot about that – I can tell you if they’re real or not – and I can tell you where they’re from and I can tell you the detail, point out things, but as far as a historian – I am only somewhat of an historian. I’m not a great historian like Bob Buege or you and a few others – you all know a lot more of this than I do. I can’t name every date and things like that – but that’s what they tagged me with – I didn’t really want that on there, but I wanted more…just being around the Braves, I guess.

DK: Let’s talk about your memorabilia.

FM: I started collecting this stuff – the stuff that I had when I was a kid – I can’t find it – I don’t know what happened to it. I had a lot of signatures on scorecards. And there were treasured ones, but they are gone as far as I know – I don’t know what happened to them. That postcard with Adcock – I don’t know what happened to it. And he signed it ‘To Mike Best Wishes – Joe Adcock’. I started collecting the rest of this stuff around ’89 or ’90…the bulk of it from ’96-2004. The main part consists of Eddie Mathews stuff… Bob Buege (co-author of Eddie Mathews and the National Pastime) calls it the “Shrine of Eddie Mathews”…which I guess you could. I got jerseys, caps, bats, pants, jackets, bags, gloves – and this is all of Eddies – the locker tag from Shea Stadium. I’ve got three minor league team balls from each year he was in the minors. The one I’m really exceptionally happy about that I got was the one from the Hi-Toms (High Point-Thomasville Hi-Toms of the Class D North Carolina State League.) And it was signed by all the players and they’re named in his book. Then I’ve got the one from the Atlanta Crackers which he signed and all the players. And I got the one ’51 from the Brewers and he only played seven or eight games and he hit a grand slam in one of them. One thing I’m trying to find out is what his number was then. I’m trying to find that.

DK: For the ’51 Brewers? How come you don’t know that? Never asked?

FM: Well, I’ve never found a program or anything, yeah, I’ve tried getting scorecards and that, you know.

DK: You ought to be able to find that.

FM: That’s what I think, too. I’d like to find it for the Crackers and the Hi-Toms, too. All of them. He was #10 when he was with Houston and he was #7 with Detroit. And he was #41 with the Braves and #41 when he managed and coached. I’m really proud of those three balls – especially the Hi-Toms one. There’s a story behind that one. A guy told me it was his Grandmother’s. It was given to her when she worked for a man and lady cleaning house and she cleaned the house one day and they said we’re going to the ballgame. Her favorite was Eddie. This is when she was really young and so was he. So, they got her a ball and they had everybody sign it and she gave it to her grandson who, later put it on ebay. And I saw it and it was pretty neat, he said she got that ball and she was crazy about Eddie. And then she gave it to him and then he sells it. So he sent me a picture and an article from a paper about the ballpark there – it’s still there. They’ve got a banner with Eddie’s number on it and so he sent me a picture of that. Pretty neat, huh? And then it showed a picture of him standing outside the gate with the ball. So I got that. And I‘ve got a lot of model bats (store bats) that were Eddie’s. And they’re all different models. They’re all Eddie’s. I’ve got other bats – pro bats – Johnny Logan, Roy McMillan, but the rest are Eddie’s. In fact I have a coach’s bat, a fungo bat and I’ve got a jersey from Ernie Johnson. I’ve got ‘Old Timers’ jerseys, like Red Schoendienst; either Bobby Avila’s or Roy McMillan’s, because there is no tag on it – just number 11. And the same for the big guy – can’t think of his name…oh, yeah, Len Gabrielson. Well, I’ve got one from Billy Martin, too. He was a Brave for only two months. And then I got Lou Burdette’s warm-up jacket and I’ve got Eddie’s warm-up jacket – the last one he wore. I’ve got jerseys from when he managed…and pants…and caps – I’ve got a pair of Hank Aaron’s stirrups – Andy Pafko’s spikes, Del Crandall’s spikes. I do have Eddie’s Boston cap – one of his caps from when he was a rookie. I’ve got a Hank Aaron cap when he played in the ‘60’s here in Milwaukee. I’ve got different little Braves things that are just memorabilia…Frank Thomas’ cap and undershirt…lots more…

DK: Cool! Was this (the main “museum” room) originally a fireman’s bedroom?

FM: That was a dining room, that part was. And there’s stuff out in the hallway. I do like that shot of County Stadium that I picked up at one of Troy’s (Kinunen) auctions. That’s out in the hallway – I think that’s a neat shot.

DK: I like that Miller sign down there on the stairs that says Braves on it. It’s old fashioned.

FM: I got that from my good friend Artie Rickun when he was on Burleigh. Ha, ha. That’s gotta be at least 12 years ago…Time flies when you’re having fun…

DK: Well, I think we should try to get some pictures. They’ll be way better than a thousand words…